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    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
    • Steam is still needed in many industries, but much of it is still made with fossil fuels.View the full article
    • Less than 1% of Japan's top companies are led by women despite years of efforts to address the issue.View the full article
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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help me take Atos and DWP to court


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Hi Again PatrickQ1 and Kelcou,

 

Apologies at being a nuisance, but the CAG PM system won't let me send a message to Tuvalu. Are you able to do the honours and email her to advise that there is a post on CAG with information that might help get the result she needs for the passing of her partner, and in a way that doesn't require her to place her and her family in financial harms way? In other words, the Health & Safety Executive and if necessary the police and CPS will, or at least should investigate.

 

Kind regards,

 

banana

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Thanks PatrickQ1,

 

Much appreciated.

 

Even if Tuvalu doesn't respond, there appear to be at least two other deaths by suicide related to the new Atos/DWP 'Medical Assessment' failings that require formal and thorough investigation. Methinks this might be a serious issue for those at Atos/DWP who refuse to 'improve' their defective 'Medical Assessment' system that on the evidence, has actual deaths in close proximity to the Atos/DWP 'Medical Assessment' et al. I have come across alleged DWP stonewalling that may very presage and end up a more serious matter than the MP Expenses Scandal. At least, as far as I know, no one lost their lives as a result of the MP Expenses Scandal. Even then the jails have MPs and Lords imprisoned.

 

For anyone curious, the fines and custodial sentences under the new Homicide Act, and breaches of the Health & Safety legislation are very very serious.

 

For civil servants and MPs, the Crown Immunity on material sections of the legislation have been removed.

 

Watch this space.

 

Very best regards to CAG,

 

banana.

Edited by Legislation Hound
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I personally do not think it will bother a single MP with regards to the suicides ,MR DS should be held accountable , but they never are they will sqirm out of it, as for expenses any single one of them who has abused the system ought to be held to account ,including MR osbourne who incedently flipped his home and also moved his money 10 mil plus to Guernsey seems he gets away with it but not others ,i do hope eventually someone does begin an action against Atosh and DWP but that is just wishful thinking

patrickq1

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Hi PatrickQ1,

 

I take your point and share your cynicism about MPs not being held to account. However, I draw a breath of fresh air from what Heather Brooke started with an almost invisible Freedom of Information request in 2005 that developed into a political maelstrom. Long story short, and it is worth reminding ourselves as we have a severe bout of cynicism, this led to one of the biggest upheavals at Westminster for centuries.....

 

Ex MP David Chaytor convicted and sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.

 

Ex MP Eric Illsley convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

 

Ex MP Jim Devine convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

 

Ex MP Elliot Morely convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

 

Lord Taylor of Warwick convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

 

Lord Hanningfield convicted of false accounting on 26th May 2011 and awaiting sentence.

 

 

On top of many of the above liars and crooks being jailed, we have the political P45s....

 

Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446.

 

Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and told to repay £41,982

 

Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation. She has been suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and ordered to repay £125,349.

 

Ex MP Jacqui Smith stood down as Home Secretary during her partners period of taxpayer funded porn purchase. She was voted out of the House of commons in 2010

 

Ex Chief Secretary to the Treasury, David Laws recently resigned from the new government following a still live £40,000 expense problem.

 

Ex MP Geoff Hoon was humiliated in a television documentary and didn't even stand as an MP in 2010

 

Ex MP and Minister of Employment and WELFARE REFORM Tony McNulty was forced to apologise to the House of Commons and repay £13,837 in dodgy expenses. He was booted out of the House of Commons in 2010.

 

Ex MP and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury Kitty Usher resigned her position after just 8 days, following publication of her efforts to avoid Capital Gains Tax.

 

The list of political casualties from the Expenses Scandal and related FOI issues that have come to light goes on, and on, and on.

 

Current MINORITY Government Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith was subject to a dodgy CV expose by investigative reporter Michael Crick. Let us not forget, Duncan Smith was SACKED by his previous employer in a humiliating vote of no confidence in him as Conservative Party Leader. His coat is on the proverbial shugglie peg.

 

My Point? Simple. If MPs do not listen to the warnings of unfairness and injustice, they will face tougher sanctions.

 

In the case of this thread, and the deaths linked to Atos/DWP, there is the distinct probability of prosecution of MPs and Civil Servants with the possibility of jail sentences being handed down to DWP Decision Makers, right up to Iain Duncan Smith being hauled before the courts WITHOUT CROWN IMMUNITY if they do not get their act, and the conduct of Atos employees and DWP officials in line with the new Homicide Act, the HSE Legislation and the Human Rights Act.

 

This matter is what might be described as a 'slow burner'.

 

It took Heather Brooke 4 years from her first FOI request. But the result shook the Mother of All Parliaments to its foundation. That is an undeniable FACT.

 

Tragically, the lessons of fairness, right, justice, and elected representatives/civil servants acting within the law themselves still haven't been learnt.

 

The matter of Atos/DWP and deaths by 'Medical Assessment' appear on this thread in a very obscure corner.

 

But mark my words, the matter will travel up the political agenda as time goes by.

 

Then again, what do I know? I am only a disabled former police officer.

 

Very best regards,

 

banana.

Edited by Legislation Hound
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  • 2 years later...
  • 3 weeks later...
Hi PatrickQ1,

 

I take your point and share your cynicism about MPs not being held to account. However, I draw a breath of fresh air from what Heather Brooke started with an almost invisible Freedom of Information request in 2005 that developed into a political maelstrom. Long story short, and it is worth reminding ourselves as we have a severe bout of cynicism, this led to one of the biggest upheavals at Westminster for centuries.....

 

Ex MP David Chaytor convicted and sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.

 

Ex MP Eric Illsley convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

 

Ex MP Jim Devine convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

 

Ex MP Elliot Morely convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

 

Lord Taylor of Warwick convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

 

Lord Hanningfield convicted of false accounting on 26th May 2011 and awaiting sentence.

 

 

On top of many of the above liars and crooks being jailed, we have the political P45s....

 

Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446.

 

Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and told to repay £41,982

 

Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation. She has been suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and ordered to repay £125,349.

 

Ex MP Jacqui Smith stood down as Home Secretary during her partners period of taxpayer funded porn purchase. She was voted out of the House of commons in 2010

 

Ex Chief Secretary to the Treasury, David Laws recently resigned from the new government following a still live £40,000 expense problem.

 

Ex MP Geoff Hoon was humiliated in a television documentary and didn't even stand as an MP in 2010

 

Ex MP and Minister of Employment and WELFARE REFORM Tony McNulty was forced to apologise to the House of Commons and repay £13,837 in dodgy expenses. He was booted out of the House of Commons in 2010.

 

Ex MP and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury Kitty Usher resigned her position after just 8 days, following publication of her efforts to avoid Capital Gains Tax.

 

The list of political casualties from the Expenses Scandal and related FOI issues that have come to light goes on, and on, and on.

 

Current MINORITY Government Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith was subject to a dodgy CV expose by investigative reporter Michael Crick. Let us not forget, Duncan Smith was SACKED by his previous employer in a humiliating vote of no confidence in him as Conservative Party Leader. His coat is on the proverbial shugglie peg.

 

My Point? Simple. If MPs do not listen to the warnings of unfairness and injustice, they will face tougher sanctions.

 

In the case of this thread, and the deaths linked to Atos/DWP, there is the distinct probability of prosecution of MPs and Civil Servants with the possibility of jail sentences being handed down to DWP Decision Makers, right up to Iain Duncan Smith being hauled before the courts WITHOUT CROWN IMMUNITY if they do not get their act, and the conduct of Atos employees and DWP officials in line with the new Homicide Act, the HSE Legislation and the Human Rights Act.

 

This matter is what might be described as a 'slow burner'.

 

It took Heather Brooke 4 years from her first FOI request. But the result shook the Mother of All Parliaments to its foundation. That is an undeniable FACT.

 

Tragically, the lessons of fairness, right, justice, and elected representatives/civil servants acting within the law themselves still haven't been learnt.

 

The matter of Atos/DWP and deaths by 'Medical Assessment' appear on this thread in a very obscure corner.

 

But mark my words, the matter will travel up the political agenda as time goes by.

 

Then again, what do I know? I am only a disabled former police officer.

 

Very best regards,

 

banana.

 

 

All these MPs that spent time in "prison" if you can call it that spent in fact merely 1/4 of the term handed down by the judges.

Do look that fact up.

Furthermore every last one of them served their time in a very soft open prison. And I have a relative that works at Leyhill open prison and it's a standing joke that it's more luxurious than more pay for fitness/health boot camps that exist throughout the country. Open prisons are really the wealthy and powerful version of a free health boot camp similar to the tv programme for naughty teenagers shown on mainstream tv.

Lord Archer spent much of his time in prison writing a book and spending weekend time at the opera and fine restaurants with the prison governor.

 

Why hasn't his title been removed and surely a fine of £1,000,000 and a prison spell in somewhere like Strangeways as a penalty?

 

To honest most of these toff dicks need a very hefty fine related where possible to their personal wealth. It is a waste of time putting them in prison.

 

It's like former MP Margaret Moran (never prosecuted for major fraud) and indeed recently the tory MP Patrick Mercer ( brushed under the carpet and very likely never to be prosecuted). These of course are only the ones that have been caught numerous other MPs including Cameron and Clegg, Ed Balls and his wife were doing very dodgy deals "within the rules" - (their own rules) making tens of thousand by flipping properties and yet the likes of Tory boys like Cameron and his fag Osbourne with allegedly offshore accounts in the channel islands yet criticizing companies like Google for working "within the rules" too.

 

Quite honestly you've got more chance of the IPCC finding the Police guilty of malpractice and as you are well aware that hasn't happened in the history of the Police. For the same reasons why these MPs never get properly punished.

 

This lady is wasting her time and money bothering to take the DWP and Atos to court as true as IPCC is as about as independent to the Police service as my head is to my body, and ultimately the courts will always rule a nine bob note is legal tender if the government tell them to do so.

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