Hi all,

me and the wife recently (3 weeks ago) opened a small convenience shop

and unfortunately have been spoofed into an electricity contract with a small energy company.

Within an hour of opening the doors at 8am the shop phone was ringing every 10 minutes

with some cheeky swines from a company calling themselves commercial registrations.

Despite me telling them we didn’t need their help and to stop calling they kept on and on ringing

and telling us we needed to register with an energy supplier as we were on emergency rates and paying extortionate amounts.

After a couple of hours and 9 or 10 phone calls harassing us I reluctantly agreed to listen to what they had to offer just to get rid of them if nothing else.

They claimed to be a completely independent broker and quoted me some extremely high rates

and then turned round and said ‘but there is a cheaper option’

and went into a load of spiel about how this company (BES) were the cheapest in our area and the best option for a business like ours.

Against my better judgement I agreed in principle to this contract but when the guy said he needed my bank details for the direct debit

before he could push it through

I told him to call back in half an hour so I could dig them out.

After I put the phone down on him I called a couple of the major companies including Eon and British Gas

who knew all about Commercial Registrations and described them as a disgrace.

The guy from British Gas also described the rates I was quoted as daylight robbery and told me their own rates which were significantly cheaper.

When the guy from commercial phoned back I told him I wasn’t interested in a contract with BES as it was not the cheapest nd not best for us at all.

He then started to backtrack and told me ‘they may not be the cheapest on the market but’ and gave me more tosh about how good they were.

After having to go through a chat with his supervisor that I didn’t want who also pleaded their case

I told them in no uncertain terms that I didn’t want to take the contract and they agreed not to pursue it.

However, 2 weeks later I got a letter from BES informing me they are taking over our electricity supply on 7th June and I am absolutely fuming.

I had agreed a contract with Eon later on the opening day and when I called Eon to ask what had happened

they informed me that BES had nipped in first and objected to their approach.

When I called BES to tell them I didn’t want their contract they informed me that they had a recording of me agreeing to the contract

and said the advisor even informed me that they weren’t the cheapest on the market

– which happened during the later call – but I still agreed to it.

Obviously the crafty toe rags had edited the calls together to make it sound convincing.

BES also claim that a company called Commercial Energy sold me the contract which is also a bit fishy

and when I called the customer service number at Commercial Energy and did some digging they admitted to working on behalf of BES.

Basically, these are going to cost me an extra £300+ per year in electricity charges

and in a small family business like ours that’s alot of money.

That’s £300 a year I should be spending on my family which instead is going to these sharks unless I can find a way out of it.

According to Consumer Direct they are already in breach of Offgem legislation by firstly,

not establishing that we are a micro business and secondly,

not making sure we had a hard copy of the terms and conditions within 10 days of the contract being agreed.

Apparently I need to raise these points with BES and ask for a deadlock letter to take to the Energy Ombudsman.

To be quite honest from what I’ve read I don’t have much faith in the fairness of the whole system

so need to find out if there’s another way round it all like technically selling the business

or even just changing the name as I’ve been told that in those circumstances any contracts are automatically ‘null and void.’

I’d be extremely grateful if anyone could shed any light on this issue or give me some other sound advice.

Regards,

Richie.

While it may look intimidating I'd say that going down the Ombudsman route may be the best way here. It won't cost you anything other than postage costs, which you ask for back as part of your complaint, but it will cost them a fee for the Ombudsman to review the case.

From what you've posted you have a good case against them and in the event the ruling goes in your favour they're bound by whether they like it or not.

It may also be worth asking your LL provider if they're able to provide incoming calls records to add additional weight.

Don't do it, you are not obliged to take their gas. Ring the supplier you are already with and tell them and say that you want them to supply you. As you haven't given any bank details to be paid by, then they can't take any money.

This is what I did. My wife signed a [problem] survey which was in fact a contract to be supplied by another company. I told them I would not pay and would only pay to the company I was already with.

Be firm and tell them if they don't like it (the 'f' word comes to mind here), then to take you to court and let the judge decide. You can sar them (£10) and insist that you get a copy or transcript of the recording. If they fail to send everything to you within 40 days (as per the regulations), then they will have committed a criminal offence and not only can you demand your £10 back, but report them as well.

P.S. Do us a favour Richie, next time you make a big post, stick some line feeds in it to make paragraphs, it makes it easier to read.

BES and their offspring Commercial Registrations are totla [problematic] and lie through their teeth to get you to agree. They are well known to the Ombudsman. You are following the correct course of action. Pity it can't make the national newspapers but maybe Watchdog would be very interested. Personally I would like to see them brought down.

Sickening, small businesses are finding it hard enough at the moment. You could ring them again and record the call getting them to confirm you rang back and cancelled the contract in no uncertain terms and see if they give you any snippets If they say you didnt ask why did I call again then, then with subject access request it will prove they talk carp.

Sickening, small businesses are finding it hard enough at the moment. You could ring them again and record the call getting them to confirm you rang back and cancelled the contract in no uncertain terms and see if they give you any snippets If they say you didnt ask why did I call again then, then with subject access request it will prove they talk carp.

It will be nice if it were that easy. With commercial contracts ther is no cooling off period and this si what they play on. A subject access request is a bit pointless, however they are obliged to supply a coy of the contract in any form and media free of charge so that is a good starting point. Request an unedited version.

From what you have written above, by escalating your complaint to the Ombudsman, they are likely to order the company to cancel the contract so you would be free to change supplier.

I doubt they would be able to edit the call in a manner to make it sound as if it was one call where all the objections were handled and the sale agreed, and as such I would expect they are saying it to avoid losing your custom

Thanks for the replies guys.

I've been told by another independent advisor that if the business were to change hands or even name then any current contract would automatically become null and void and any new owner or person responsible would be able to chose a new supplier. I may draw up a contract where my best mate takes over the business and asks for a new supplier if you know what I mean but I don't trust BES to not object to the change of supplier or even ask of proof of change of ownership. This can easily be whipped by downloading a standard document from the law society website.

I know it seems like a great length to go to but I don't care how far I have to go to stop these scoundrels getting their hands on my family money.

that is one way around it....

Is the energy account in joint names or your partners?

Because, your partner could lease the business off you if it is in your name or vice versa, and, if in the unfortunate event that things went wrong, the lease could then be sold back to you and you could carry on the business without going bankrupt/into admin

The business is a partnership between me and my wife but the supposed energy contract is in my name only.

My wife has dual nationality and still has a passport and bank account in her maiden name. It may be worth a try her taking out an energy contract in her maiden name and saying she is the new owner of the business.

yea definately, get her to write into them saying she is the new proprietor as of X date, in her maiden name, and that she wishes to change her supplier, send it recorded delivery, the account would have to go on a deemed contract until the change of supply went through which means the prices would be higher than in-contract rates but would only take 4-6 weeks rather than another 12 months before you were free of them

By writing in also there will be a paper trail, send it recorded delivery etc

I'm in 2 minds at the minute about which road to go down as I don't have much faith in the ombudsman system and the contract I got scammed into is a 3 year one not 12 months which is a total nightmare.

If I go down the official route and the ombudsman rules in favour of them and then I suddenly sell the business they will smell a rat and object to a change of supplier which could then lead to another complicated battle with them. Could they demand to see official papers for the sale of the business etc or don't they have those kind of rights? I really can't believe how easy it is to get stitched up with commercial contracts. The whole system is a total disgrace TBH.

I was hoping someone on here preferably with legal knowledge could give me some sound off the record advice.

well - I worked for an energy company for many years so I have a good background knowledge of policies and procedures but not so hot on the legal aspects.

In my experience, proof would only be requested where there was some kind of reason to doubt or if there was a large outstanding debt. From what you have said, there would be no reason for them to doubt what you were saying, so it's worth a shot

Nottslad in this case as the OP has voiced objections previously, more than likely they will request a copy of the tenancy agreement, so unless the OP has the tenancy agreement changed into someone else's name they still have a problem.

Reading through the posts, the OP does not mention the name of the new supplier as neither Commercial or BES are registered as suppliers when I last checked. It may be worth pursuing the current supplier advising that the OP is taking the matter to the Ombudsman.

The current supplier will only have an edited version of the media where the OP agrees to change supplier. The OP needs to argue that he felt intimidated and needs to prove the number of harrassing calls received on that day from BES / Commercial. This may win round one. Next the fact that the OP never gave bank account details therefore not concluding the contract is also a good point.

A paper version always requests bank details. If the OP still has not received a copy of the T & Cs then there may be another argument. Unfortunatelyy not receiving the actual contract counts for squat as per the regulator's rules.

The argument is now between the OP and the new supplier which is why Commercial / BES get away with a lot of scams. I have on more than occasion personally met the MD of Commercial when i was working for a supplier and he is not a very pleasant person.

So what you're saying surfer is that I may have to show them a copy of some sort of contract stating I am no longer running the business and therefor not the person responsible for the energy contracts?

I own the lease on the property but surely I wouldn't have to assign the lease to someone else. Just a copy of a tenancy agreement stating that I am letting the business out to someone else would be sufficient would it not?

I'm still half tempted to go down the ombudsman route but if the decision went against me I'd be stuck with these b******s and their extortionate rates for 3 years.

I'm in 2 minds at the minute about which road to go down

they had a recording of me agreeing to the contract

Whichever road you decide to take, you really should ask for a copy of the recording. Then, and only then, will you know for certain if you agreed the contract or not.

Conniff is correct but when you ask for a copy of the recording, ask for the unedited version and also ask for recordings of all previous phone calls otherwise you will be doing a Sunject Access Request. The monkeys probably will not know what a SAR is and will need to think about the consequences. Put this in writing to them and give them 10 working days for a reply.

Once you have got the recording listen to it and then come back on here for advice. Until you get the recording, no point in contacting the Ombudsman.

If there is a valid issue and you can return to the previous supplier, an erroneous transfer will be raised and you will revert back to the old supplier. The good news if that happens is that the current supplier will need to refund ALL your money and you will go back onto the rates you were on prior to the transfer. It is as if you never left the old supplier. Once back with the old supplier yu cna then choose a new supplier.

Also in the meantime, contact the old supplier and tell them that you never agreed to the transfer and you would like them to transfer you back as an erroenous transfer. You may get lucky and it will just happen, however continue to follow all the advcie above and that of other posters as most of us have worked at sometime or other for a supplier and know all the tricks.

Well I got them to send me a copy of the contract phone call and just listened to it. They did get me to agree to the contract but that was on the 2nd call. They didn't include the earlier call when they claimed BES was the cheaper option or the call straight after where I told them not to go ahead with it which they agreed not do. There was also a bit sneaked in where he claimed BES may not be the cheapest out there but was far better for my business which actually came from the later call. They also claimed to be impartial which we all know is carp and he said some other speil deliberately so fast it's not understandable.

There was no attempt to find out if we are a micro business or not and there was no stating of terms and conditions. Under offgem rules I am under the impression that as a micro business THEY have to asertain whether we are a micro business or not and also have to provide us with a hard copy of the terms and conditions within 10 days and 4 weeks later we still have nothing.

The odd thing is I've had a few calls from commercial energy over the last 2 days claiming there is no nominated contract for the electricity for my premesis and wanting to negotiate one. BES are due to take over the supply on mon 7th June so I don't know what they are playing at however I did speak to an independent energy advice service and told them I was considering selling the business to my mate so maybe they've already logged it on the system as a change of business.

When I called this advice service this afternoon to said that according to their system BES were still due to go live with my supply on monday so I'm not sure what's going on. What they did say however was that if I change the tenancy into a mates name any current contract will become null and void. That person can then negotiate a contract of their choice although BES will probably object which can then be overcome by submitting a copy of a change of tenancy agreement.

Under the circumstances I think this may be the best way forward unless anyone else has better advice.

A good friend of mine helps clients resolve these queries but unfortunately to keep within forum rules I cannot name his company and probably woldl not be vey ethical

It takes about a month to 6 weeks for an application to be processed. I will try and advise you as mmuch as possible as ylou go along. Have you contacted the previous supplier and informed them that you suspect an erroneosu transfer has taken place. Be truthful with them and maybe they can try on your behalf to re-register you.

Nottslad an opinion please.

Thanks for your help Surfer. Yes I contacted the original supplier EDF withing 24hrs of getting the letter from BES and they weren't very helpful TBH even after I had explained the situation. They advised me to contact BES and try to raise an erroneous transfer which I did but BES were having none of it as you would expect from the crafty slimeballs.

What do you make of commercial energy phoning me again yesterday claiming there was no electrcity contract in place on the premesis? That seems a bit strange to me.

It may just be quicker and easier to try the route of sub-letting the premesis to a friend or even my wife in her maiden name and previous address who would then be free to chose another supplier. Are there any potential pitfalls with this method though?

I don't want to sound negative but should ther been an issue with the busnes the LL will go after the person on the lease for tha balance.

It should eb the responsibility of the old supplier to raise the errorneous transfer. I am sure that if you advised EDF that if they did not raise an ET you want a deadlock letter from them so that you can progress it to the Ombudsman and don't let them fob you off. May help if you insist on speaking to a supervisor.

When I spoke to consumer direct last they told me to ask BES for a deadlock letter to take to the ombudsman so this whole thing is getting a bit confusing now. I will try calling EDF again tomorrow to see what they have to say but on what grounds do I ask them to raise an ET? Is it the fact that commercial energy told me they are impartial when really they act on behalf of BES, the fact they never asked if we are a micro business and since the contract was brokered - 4 weeks ago - we still have no hard copy of the terms and conditions which should have been sent to us within 10 days.

I don't suppose it would be worth just writing to BES and ask to be released from the contract on grounds of not being happy about the way the contract was brokered and the rates being too high for a small and new business like ours which in turn could cause us to struggle. This is probably a long shot but I found this article on complaints about small energy companies on the Daily Telegraph online. This is a quote from their general manager which my make you laugh,

"Phil Brown, general manager at Blackpool-based BES, also defended the company's policy, saying that the company had received "hardly any complaints at all" from its 3,000 customers. "We have it in our terms and conditions but we are very understanding of people coming to us saying can you release me because of x, y and z. We are not a shark company. We don't need to employ those sort of tactics and we don't," he said."

If they are that understanding they may be prepared to release us from the contract especially if I add that I will go to the ombudsman if needs be.

I'm still thinking that sub-letting the business to my wife's close friend who works several shifts for us anyway, and then terminating the sub lease once the energy supplier has changed is going to be the quickest way out of this anyway.

I could be wrong but I don't think BES are a supplier. They only act as an agent and they were an agent for our compsnay which ahd a supplier's licence. We had numerous new customers complaining about the tactics that they used to register them.

No BES are definately a supplier now and commercial energy are their agents even though they claim to be impartial.

Nottslad what's your latest take on all this?

Might be an idea to continue with the complaint and in the mean time prepare a "lease" to sub-let the company. My main experience is with domestic properties so I'm not 100% sure on where else you could go with this.

The letter you suggested stating the reasons why you want to be released from the contract seems like a good idea