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    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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How on earth do Welcome calculate their interest


hybrid77
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Well, they call it CAPITALISATION, but it's interest. On my statements it says calculated on the daily outstanding balance, but every which way I try, NOTHING adds up! My plan was to get their miscalculations printed out before tea, but I'm going to be sitting here all bloomin night. Does anybody have any insight into Welcome mathematics?

 

I'm arguing with them over some old arrears but they can't tell me the exact figure. From my calculations on the contractual paments and actual payments, even after their charges and additional interest, the arrears are cleared (plus some), yet I'm still being charged a 'default sum fee interest' every month and their advice is to carry on overpaying ... stuff that!

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hehe

welcome [pun intended]

 

to the great world of welcome fleecers ltd.

 

i'd have a read of a few thread

that will give you most of the info you need.

 

but you are not alone!!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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nice link

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks, I'd already tried regular amortization ... way out.

 

I'll let you know if mine is the same .... just inputting the inital figures doesn't work, but it might get me a bit closer.

 

I can get the figures to £5.50 a month out with amortization and a bit of fiddling.

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ok, mines definately not rule of 78s, my interest rate is going up by a tiny amount every month rather than down, but not by the same amount, not on any form of scale, and not by the number of days in the month.

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hallelujah!!!!!

 

My loan started on 30 nov, 1st payment on 1st jan. They've added the .5 month to the inital inital loan amount (doesn't show this though) then capitalised some of it. After 60 months regular payments, we'll still owe that half month. Nice little money earner for them, that nobody spots.

 

Now I've worked this out, where do I go with it?

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but until the end of the agreement, they could argue that the monthly interest rate will get adjusted later on to take account for it ... if there's any charges or arrears by then, it would be very difficult to argue with them and prove they've done otherwise.

 

Interest rate on the loan is supposed to be 21%, but the statement adds up to 21.3% in the first 12 months of on-time payments. I can't find any laws which say the statement has to tally with the agreement.

 

I've sent a letter asking for an explanation and I've to send my letter and their reply to trading standards and FOS.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Can any one* help. I am a bit confused with rule 78.

 

Can Rule 78 be used when calculating the original figures as stated on the loan agreement or is it purely for calculating the repayment figures. Any supporting legislation ect most appreciated. *Why have an APR if Rule 78 calculator used?

As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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to further confuse and rip off the punter.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Apparently use of rule 78 was considered unfair since may 2005.

 

Surely, if they (the sc*m) have issued loans since that date and are being repaid under the use of rule 78, then surely the agreements are unenforceable??????

 

Anyone agree?

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I had the same issue I thought my Total amount of credit was incorrect due to certain members on this forum not knowing how welcome work there agreements out. Welcome and the FOS informed me this is how they do it.

 

They charge interestlink3.gif to Interest bearing Loan agreements based on a monthly flat rate which is calculated on the outstanding balance.

 

(AIR)This is the monthly Interest rate x12 which gives you the annual flat which is proberly stated on your agreement somewhere.

 

The APR is a compounded rate that includes the charge for credit (Acceptance Fee, MIF) as interest.

 

If you read my thread you will see I was informed that my figures were incorrect and Challenged this with the foslink3.gif for 6 months to be told the above and my complaint wasnt upheld.

 

This was how welcome worked my agreement out, wether everybodies elses is the same I would'nt like say.

As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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Hi Emanevs

 

OK so interest is calculated on a monthly basis in my case 1.8% which means AIR is 21.6 % this is just 1.8 x 12. The 23.9 % interest as stated on my ageement is 23.9% This is the annual rate that includes the effect of compounding, which is interest charged on interest.

 

So my agreement was

 

18591.90 loan and ppi

interest charge 29610.17

acceptance 235.00

mif 1625.45

 

total charge for credit 31470.62 and monthly payment 417.19.

As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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That's right, but it's my MONTHLY interest rate that's reducing each month when I look closely at the capitalisation each month. On the face of it, everything looks as it should, but by the end of the term, I'll still have an outstanding balance. The only way I get the same interest rate applied each month is if I increase the initial loan amount.

 

5476.27 94.71 148.39 1.7295%

5422.59 93.68 148.39 1.7276%

5367.88 92.73 148.39 1.7275%

5312.22 91.75 148.39 1.7271%

5255.58 90.76 148.39 1.7269%

5197.95 89.75 148.39 1.7266%

5139.31 88.73 148.39 1.7265%

5079.65 87.68 148.39 1.7261%

5018.94 86.62 148.39 1.7259%

4957.17 85.54 148.39 1.7256%

4894.32 84.44 148.39 1.7253%

4830.37 83.32 148.39 1.7250%

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I would'nt like to comment on yours Hybrid77 its took me 6 month to get welcome to admit how mine is calculated.

 

Whats your opinion emanevs ?

As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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I can think of a couple of things:

 

1) The use of using rule 78 is unfair - FACT.

Perhaps someone can think of what law we could use against the **** in this respect giving us a loan of which has unfair contract or term?

 

2) The way in which the loan is paid off makes a whole mockery of the interest amount stated on the loan.

 

3) If the interest rate is incorrectly stated on our loan agreements, then clearly schedule 6 (prescribed terms) will mean that a court must declare the agreement unenforceable.

 

4) Once the agreement is delcared unenforceable, then they have an invalid security of which must be removed.

 

Can anyone help with (1) case law??

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Rule of 78 only applies to the calculation of rebates if you pay off the loan early. Welcome work out actual interest in the way the BB described above. If you want to understand how this is done, have a look at my interest turorial which is linked from my signature.

 

I suspect that the interest is correctly stated on your laon, it's just you haven't understood it.

 

More to the point, did you have PPI on the loan or other insurance. We now know that Welcome pay themselves a massive commission on insurance on their loans which they dodn't tell you about. This is very very naughty indeed and renders the loan void. Without prejudice to it being void, the loan amount, charge for credit and APR are also then all wrong, which would render the loan agreement unenforceable if it wasn't void.

 

 

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I'm not sure about mortgage indemnity fees - do they count as insurance? who underwrites them, that is the question.

 

With 'proper' insurance, like PPI for example, Welcome act as insurance broker. As such they are allowed to pay themselves a commission but only if they tell you and you agree to it. If they don't tell you, it means the commission is secret and case law views that as a type of fraud. Given then that the agreement is fraudulent, it is void. That is, the agreements is deemed not to exist.

 

 

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I found this. Have a look.

 

With my agreement my problem is also this:

 

I signed for a total amount of credit - £25000

the duration was 121 months

the payment was xxx

the interest rate was 14.00%

 

Yet,

 

I had my annual statment:

 

total amount of credit £27,985 (inc. MIF and acceptance fee)

a minimum duration term of 121 months

payments remained the same.

interest rate was 13.20%

 

SURELY UNENFORCEABLE?????

 

If so, How could I put this to a Judge - Politely

 

Many thanks,

Welcome MIF letter page 01.jpg

Welcome MIF letter page 02.jpg

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