Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I've just taken another look through the stuff they sent me in response to the CPR request, the notice of assignment isn't the original , it's on a plain sheet of non letterhead paper, in fact it could have easily been typed up by Overdales, or anybody really.  On the other side of the paper are standard Lowell terms and conditions that are only half on the page. Should this be part of my defence?
    • I agree with my site team colleague above. We need to know all the facts including which company you are dealing with and an explanation of the problem. It really is too difficult to start giving speculative advice on some speculative problem that you have laid out as a generalised scenario
    • Moorcroft are sending a rep round to my house this week. What is the best way to handle this? Ignore and not answer the door or engage with them? I haven't acknowledged anything since I started on this journey and defaulted on my cards in December 2022
    • Very sorry but with the best will in the world, I don't think we can at all understand what the situation is here. Please can you try rewriting this on a word processor and maybe send a copy of what you have written to a friend and working out together so that the story is complete but as brief as possible. Maybe a list of dates as well. If you can do that and then repost your story we can have a look
    • Hi, I am a local authority tenant and was in a 3 bed house. At the end of last year, my last child moved out and so did my spouse as we are now going through a divorce which meant that I was in the house alone and decided that I needed to downsize not only for myself but to offer the property to a family that needed it. I registered on the local authority housing bidding site as i was asked to do and I was accepted and given a priority banding as I was downsizing and they were desperate for my house. I have been extremely lucky and after about 6 weeks was accepted for a new build from a housing association via the housing gateway. I viewed the property 2 weeks ago and had to sign the tenancy last week when they were doing bulk signups for the houses and that is the day I moved. In between viewing and sign up, I contacted my current local authority landlord and asked how I give notice as I had been accepted for a property I had bid on and was moving.  The lady told me how to do it online and then said that I needed to give a full weeks notice which wasnt a problem as I had enough time.  (I was also told a weeks notice was what i would need to give by another staff member about a month ago when I phoned up for another housing related question.  I dont have any of this in writing.) I have now moved, handed back the keys and I am now being told that I need to give 4 weeks notice which I cannot afford. I hav e spoken to the council again explaining that I was told a week and that to be honest, if I knew they were going to charge me 4 weeks I would not have been able to move and would have stayed in the other house.  I thought I was doing the right thing. They said that calls are recorded and they asked me when I called in and was told a week and they would listen to the telephone conversation and if it was correct what I was told, they would see what they could do to reduce the notice period. They have now emailed me back and said that they have listened to the conversation and the lady said 4 weeks notice and I am liable for 4 weeks rent.  Now I may well of misheard her when I thought she said a full weeks notice she may have said 4 weeks notice but I am sure she said a full weeks notice and i was told a week by another member of staff a few weeks ago. I have emailed her back and said that I may of misheard but I would like to listen to the phone recording myself.  As yet they havent responded. I think its unreasonable for them to make me give 4 weeks when I had to sign the new tenancy with little notice or loose the property.  And it was all done through their gateway, and they will have a tenant in there pretty much straight away getting rent from them. I am on a very low income, I am on my own, I have serious medical issues and I am really getting myself stressed out over this. Any advice would be so appreciated.  Can I insist they let me listed to the recording? RH  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Re: Tenancy Deposit Protection - First High Court Decision


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5184 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Decision here, I'm off to read long version!

 

Lawdoctor

High Court decision on TDP

 

We are pleased to report that the High Court has handed down its decision in the case on Tenancy Deposit Protection that we have previously mentioned on this blog.

In Draycott v Hannells Lettings Ltd, PainSmith Solicitors have been acting for the Defendant lettings agency and have used Mr James Browne of Lamb Chambers as counsel. The facts of the case were undisputed and the essential issue is that Hannells registered the deposit with the custodial scheme operated by DPS more than 14 days after receipt.

The tenants claimed for the usual penalty of three times the value of the deposit and after decisions in their favour at lower courts the matter came before Mr Justice Tugendhat in the High Court.

 

 

There were three issues before the Court:

  1. Could an agent be held liable for a failure to protect a deposit or was it entirely a matter for the landlord;
  2. Was the requirement to register the deposit and give the required information within 14 days as required by section 213(6)(b) of the Act subject to the penalties set out in section 214; and
  3. Is it an actual or implied initial requirement of the DPS scheme that the deposit be registered within 14 days of receipt.

If point 1 was found in favour of Hannells they could not be liable under any circumstances but if they failed on this point then both points 2 and 3 would also have ot be found in their favour for them to escape liability.

On point 1 the Court decided that the wording of section 212(9)(a) was clear in stating that in the section of the Act relating to deposit protection:

references to a landlord or landlords in relation to any shorthold tenancy or tenancies include references to a person or persons acting on his or their behalf in relation to the tenancy or tenancies…

Accordingly, the Court found against Hannells on this point.

In relation to point 2 the Court looked at the wording of section 213(6) which reads:

(6) The information required by subsection (5) must be given to the tenant and any relevant person—

(a) in the prescribed form or in a form substantially to the same effect, and

(b) within the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the deposit is received by the landlord.

and the wording of section 214(1)(a) which provides that an application can be made to the Court where a person believes:

(a) that the initial requirements of an authorised scheme (see section 213(4)) have not, or section 213(6)(a) has not, been complied with in relation to the deposit;

The Court noted that the Circuit Judge whose decision was being appealed had taken the view that to suggest that the 14 day requirement set out in s213(6)(b) did not attract the penalties set out is section 214 was to “drive a coach and horses” through the intent of the Act as it would permit a landlord to not protect a deposit until such time as they were challenged in Court. However, it also heard submission that this view was overly draconian as it penalised innocent error and that a failure to protect the deposit properly would always be penalised by section 215, which prevents the service of a section 21 notice while the deposit remains unprotected. Ultimately the latter position prevailed and the Court agreed that the Act itself does not impose a requirement that the deposit be protected within 14 days as long as it is protected prior to the matter coming before a Court.

The third point was more complex. Initially, none of the schemes had formally set out any initial requirements. In December 2008 the TDS scheme altered its rules to make clear that it had an initial requirement that any deposit registered with it be protected within 14 days of receipt. It was common ground that section 214(1)(a) allowed for a penalty to be imposed where an initial requirement had been breached. What was at issue was whether the DPS scheme imposed such a requirement. On looking at the DPS rules it could be seen that they had a clause stating that the deposit should be lodged with them within 14 days of receipt. However, there was no mention of this being an initial requirement. The Court took the view that a simple restatement of the Act did not amount to an expression of an initial requirement and that while it could be seen that an initial requirement of the DPS scheme was that a deposit be lodged with it it could not be taken that it was required that the deposit be lodged within 14 days. Therefore, this point was found in favour of Hannells.

Therefore, although it was found that Hannells were potentially liable for a failure to lodge a deposit it was found that their late lodging of that deposit with the DPS was not a breach of the Act or of the initial requirements of the DPS scheme and accordingly the appeal was allowed and the judgement against Hannells of the lower Court was set aside.

Therefore as things currently stand agents are liable for a failure to register the deposit, late registration does not automatically attract the penalties set out in section 214, and the DPS scheme has no initial requirement that the deposit be registered with it within 14 days of being received.

This is by no means the end of the matter though. This case is still capable of being taken to the Court of Appeal and there are at least two more cases which will see judgements handed down from that Court within the next few months and they could have the effect of altering the position again.

Although, there are other decisions from more senior Courts in the pipeline, this is the first binding decision on the issue of Tenancy Deposit Protection and, as such, is very important. We are pleased and proud to have been involved in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/244224-tenancy-deposit-protection-first.html#post2727173

p-ab3gTb8xb3dLg.gif

 

 

Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)

Edited by HSBCrusher
removed link
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk unpinned this topic
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5184 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...