Hi all,

I ran into difficulties and Had to stop paying my IFF credit card amongst the others about 12 months ago. As a result my credit card account was

Defaulted in Jan 09,

Terminated in Feb 09.

also received a letter in May saying account had been ENDED in May 09??

I CCA'd them in Feb, received Agreement,s (yes 2 of them both the same except for the interest rate) in May 09,

Both look like word documents not agreements.

I was then Defaulted in Feb with a DN only allowing 13 days total issued on a Saturday so only 9 days to rectify.

Then Account was Terminated and Blair Witch started on the case,

CAB was helping me and Blair Witch eventually accepted very small monthly payments to the account in May 09.

Now Blair Witch wants a review and increase in payments. usual threats etc. They have now sent me an I&E form to fill in, my questions are:

1/ Do they have a right to see my Income and Expenditure (no income anyway only

benefits at present. they even want me to send proof of I & E.

2/ in view of the fact the DN is defective should I be paying them at all as reading other

threads the advice is that if you talk to them you are accepting that you have

entered into a new contract to pay.

That's it for this post but I will post up the agreements and DN soon.

Your views please.

Jim Pike

Hi,

1, They have no right whatsoever in seeing your I&E details. A judge can order it but that is all.

2. Before you can throw a dodgy default at them you need to make sure the account has definitely been terminated.

More info will come your way once we see the DN and the termination letters

Hi silverfox1961

Thanks for your reply.

This is what they sent for the agreement. 8 pages in all, this is the first 2 pages. there is nowhere in the docs for signatures.

Agreement page 1.pdf

Agreement page 2.pdf

This is pages 3 and 4 of the agreement.

Agreement page 3.pdf

Agreement page 4.pdf

It's so very easy to type your name/address onto the top of any generic terms and conditions and say they are yours but they would have great difficulty getting it enforced by a judge if they brought the same documents to court.

To enforce this agreement through the courts they would need to bring copies of the originals showing your signature.

Have you SAR'd them?

If not, I would do so. This should bring you copies of everything they hold, including your original agreement. If they failed to provide this then it's a fair bet they don't have it.

Hi silverfox1961

That is just the sort of reply I was hoping to get from the forums, I have read so many threads on here that my head is just clogged up with info that turns sour in my head because I don't really grasp the full context of it. I am afraid I like so many others need it spelling out to me.

No I haven't SAR'd them yet, but I will when I have the spare £10 to do it with.

I am about to post up the Default Notice, in process of scanning them now.

Many Thanks

Jim

This is the Default Notice which I know is Invalid from other posts, but I suppose I still need clarification, no I didn't keep the envelope as I didn't know it was relevant at the time.

cheers

Jim

Default letter page 1.pdf.pdf

Default letter page 2.pdf

Doesn't matter about the envelope really unless they can prove it was hand delivered and the 17th of Jan was a Saturday so I would think it wasn't posted till the 19th.

Yes silverfox1961, That was what I thought posted on the monday so allowing for post times and payment before 31st means only 9 days to rectify.

Jim Pike

I have 2 letters for Termination, the first in Feb saying they have Terminated (BUT to prevent this please ring NOW) so they had not terminated at that time despite stating that they had.

The second letter was a covering letter sent with my agreement, it says that the account was terminated 3 months later on the 6 May.

So based upon all the evidence your honour should I be paying blair witch the fiver a month for the quiet life or should should I let it hit the fan.

Should I even answer Blairs letters, or let them speak on the phone ( yes I do have a line recorder, it's not as good as a truecall but it works and I can download to PC)

Cheers Jim Pike

1st Termination letter.pdf

2nd Termination letter.pdf

Well that fairly nails it.

Terminated on 2nd Feb with a duff DN equals unlawful rescission of contract meaning they can only claim for the arrears not the full balance.

Wonder how you are going to break the bad news to them:D

Brilliant, Thanks silverfox1961

Now that is the thing, what sort of letter would I send them telling them to go forth? or do I wait for them to take the lead.

Many Many Thanks.

Jim

Personally I would wait for it to be sold to a DCA, purely for the fact that I have it in for them. They will buy the debt from the IF at a discounted rate and then you hit them with the facts. Mean, me

Totally up to you which way you go of course but if IF offer to reopen your account for you, you aren't going to agree are you;)

I'm quite happy to wait untill sold to DCA, but do I stop paying Blair witch, or just tell them I am only going to carry on paying what I'm paying now. I could even tell them I am only paying the same untill the arrears are paid off. :)

Either way it looks like IFF are going to make a loss on this one, From other posts I gather that IFF/Halifax always take every thing to court. Still at my age you have to try new experiences before its too late.

Thanks for all your help.

Jim Pike

Oh!

I did mean to say also, that NO I would not agree to them re-instating my account. Should I respond to the termination letter saying that I accept Termination or something Like that??

Jim Pike

Hi Jim,

Just my opinion but you should stop paying them asap. Whilst you are still paying something they have no need to pass it on to a DCA or do a deal.

Hi the_maverick

Thanks for your reply, the account has been passed to IFF's inhouse DCA (BLAIR OLIVER AND SCOTT) but as of yet I have not been told it is sold in fact Blairs letters say they are collecting for their clients. At what stage would I know it has been sold because I know IFF/Halifax tell porkies and you can't believe what they say. the 2 letters I have regarding Termination confirm that, 1st letter says terminated, 2nd letter says terminated 3 months later, so if I had taken action between those dates and said tough I am not paying any more, They would have said OH ITS NOT TERMINATED YET we were only threatening to do it we will correct the Default Notice.

Just my take on creditors (oh I've got so many it doesn't matter if I fall out with some of them)

Many thanks

Jim Pike

I may be wrong, and someone far more savvy will come along shortly no doubt. But if you hear from a DCA the first thing to do is ask them to prove there claim (even if you know its genuine!)

I believe there is a template here somewhere basically saying "I do not acknowledge your claim, please supply a cca, full statement of account, notice of assignment etc etc...until i am willing to discuss further"

From their reply you should find out who owns it. But you are right, many give the impression they have sold it on but havent. I have read on another thread that if a debt is sold on, the bank marks your file as satisifed, but the DCA puts on there own 'default'. Wonder if anyone else as come across this as mine are not at that stage yet!

I may be wrong, and someone far more savvy will come along shortly no doubt. But if you hear from a DCA the first thing to do is ask them to prove there claim (even if you know its genuine!)

 

 

Correct

 

I believe there is a template here somewhere basically saying "I do not acknowledge your claim, please supply a cca, full statement of account, notice of assignment etc etc...until i am willing to discuss further"

 

That is generally either a "prove it letter" or a CCA request

From their reply you should find out who owns it. But you are right, many give the impression they have sold it on but havent. I have read on another thread that if a debt is sold on, the bank marks your file as satisifed, but the DCA puts on there own 'default'. Wonder if anyone else as come across this as mine are not at that stage yet!

That last bit is not strictly true. When a debt is sold to the DCA, they replace the default made by the OC with their own as they cannot default you twice for the same debt so all they do is to replace one name with another.

Thanks the_maverick and silverfox1961

I will have a look and see if I can find a suitable template letter, I want to try and be prepared. I have so many posts/threads etc stored on my computer that I can't find anything now, I will have to try and do a bit of filing and get them into some sort of order.

Cheers

Jim

hiya am subbing if i may

as im in the middle of getting letters now from the same creditor thus will sit down later with a cuppa and read your thread in full

good luck and take care laters angel x

Hi Angel

Welcome and I hope we can all help each other.

I know all cases are different but one common goal, to use the law in our favour. I think that with all the good people on CAG we must have more collective knowledge than the creditors law departments, what we lack is the funding to implement it, so if we all don't pay they will not have the funds either. And to be honest my views have changed over the last year from wanting to pay my debts to not wanting to at all, mainly because of the unbending attitude of creditors.

Jim Pike

Update!

As per my original post, I received an i&e form to fill in from Blair witch, didn't bother to reply or send back, few days later I receive a letter from Blair words to the effect that my proposal???? to pay £5 per month is acceptable.

I made no offer just told them a couple of weeks before that I could not increase payments. I think they made a mistake, but tough I will take them at their written word.

Then today I get a 2 page letter from Halifax, looks like a statement of account with tear off payment slip. This says I have failed to make the minimum payment. the breakdown on the left states the minimum amount due as full balance.

Page 2 says payment received in Nov Thank you. And has the minimum payment as £5

Confused or what!!

looks like Halifax have taken it back from Blair, I shall just keep paying the £5 a month until I have paid enough to cover the areas (a couple of years or so)

Jim

thanks Jim for the update

to tell you the truth other stuff has taken over this month will take a good look and read later this week cos this is now firing up for me again

good look and always keep positive as long as you are with cag and thats for me too we shall be fine

laters angel x

UPDATE 2

Afternoon All

I have today received A NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT ACTION from blair witch for their client Halifax who have instructed them to commence without delay. the letter was composed a week ago and gives me until today to pay full balance.

A quick recap of this.

DEFAULTED Jan 09 (DN only allowed 9 days for rectification)

TERMINATED early Feb 09

again TERMINATED early May (so they lied about the first Termination)

CCA request gave me 2 copies of word docment headed credit card agreement, with my name typed in it.

I have carried on paying a small amount each month.

(In view of the threads about accepting termination) I may, or may not have sent a letter accepting unlawfull termination and saying that I will maintain small payments until arrears are paid off.

I have to date never sent a SAR request DO I NOW! or is there another type of request I should send with court action due, and who do I send it to Blair or Halifax.

I hope you will be able to give me help and guidance through this (getting a bit jittery allready)

Jim