I attaxch the info i received following a recent request. It is a signed agreement - i assume I am now in the enforceable camp?, or can someone point me in the direction of where I can attempt to read up on how to identify if it is or isnt pls.

BOS.pdf

Hopefully I have put the attachment on correctly. let me know if you cant see it etc.

It doesn't contain any of the prescribed terms and the T&Cs they've provided are not within the 4 corners of the document you signed. Send them this;

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute .

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

Thanks for the reply.

I am currently continuing to make payments as I dont want my credit score ruined. Does that mean I will be in a catch 22 situation? ie saying its in dispute but making payments.

Even though it can be argued to be unenforceable - they can still ruin my credit file cant they?

What options are there to avoid credit reports being ruined but claim an agreement should not be enforced. Is me continuing to pay weakening my position should it be drawn into a legal battle?

Its all a little confusing regarding the actual logistics of dealing with these requests.

I have followed quite a few threads with interest but I am still at a loss what the 'best' course of action is.

Whilst your account is in dispute, they are unable to request any amount of payment from you against the account nor can they append anything to your credit file until the dispute has ceased.

You're quite within right to put the account into dispute as per the CCA lays out is an acceptable period of time for RBoS to provide the documents you requested. They have not done this even if they believed they had sent the correct documents so your account remains in dispute despite what they may tell you.

although terms and conditions are referenced in the declaration, they are not the ones that applied with the issuing of your card.

make no mistakes...

although lawfully, they are restricted from enforcing/passing to a DCA/or amending your credit reference.

THEY WILL TRASH IT.

you could always offer a lower payment and ask them to stop the interest and charges but....that's when they say no and start to put the interest up and your limit down.

it's your call..

I'm on the receiving end of RBS/MINT...they have terminated with a dodgy default notice though...poor things

series 3

Thanks for the response. Since receiving the documents I havent replied to them as I have more or less given up thinking there is a way out of it.

I continue to make the payments - I admire people that take on the banks but I have a mortgage, wife and kids. I cant take the risk of having ballifs knocking the door taking their stuff away.

I am resigned to paying the minimum payments (thats all I can afford) and having the debts sitting there forever. I simply dont earn enough to enable me to be able to pay them off. Every month i pay, about £1 comes off my overall balance.

CCA requests seemed like a good idea at the time but they dont really get you anywhere. I was waiting for all these so called test cases in the hope things were clarified but I m no legal expert and I will have to leave the loopholes to those much more informed than me. For the people that get their debts written off or similar, its us left paying higher interest to compensate the banks !! A very viscous circle isnt it !

Thanks for all for the help.

How you handle it is your decision. Yours alone.

You could ask them to stop the interest and charges and offer them a lower amount until your circumstances change.

With the CCA being unenforceable you have a great tool.

tell them that their CCA is waste paper but you would like to pay off your account at a lower rate.

At the end of the day, a court would never make you pay more than you could afford, and if you keep the payments up then NO bailiffs are going to get involved.

I have a mortgage and children too as do most on here.

I can't afford to pay my debts but will fight. Worst case scenario if in court I lose then I will let the court decide the terms of repayment.

No matter what you give them they always want more.

When I was making minimum payment, they lowered my limit and hiked the interest payments..obviously this didn't help me.

It helped me to decide to put up a fight.

It's your call.

Just have a read on here, we're all in the same boat.

series3

I fell in the trap moving home, doing work on the house funded through credit cards with the intention of a remortgage to repay cards and then obviously repaying over a prolonged period at a low rate.

With house prices falling like they have, I cant remortgage due to loan to value issues, all the inticing low rates on credit cards have long finished and I am stuck in this mess.

Incidentally, all my CC providers have been lowering credit limits and increasing interest rate. I thought it was just me being picked on and promted me doing the CCA requests I have done. After considering the next course of action though I must admit I chickened out as felt I could never win, I would get in too much of a mess.

Thanks for giving me your point of view, its useful to know how other people go about things. In my case, I just dont want to ruin my credit file, I suppose thats my overriding concern as otherwise i would just stop paying for a while until I was straight.

How they will ever eventually be repaid is another matter !!

your spending is monitored all the time..for instance if you use a CC for fuel or asda, then pay the minimum, it will get flagged and they know you are struggling. Next step is they consider you a worse risk..so down with the limit and up with the interest.

Once they start with your file, others will follow. The more of a risk, the more interest. I was doing same, but could only keep it up for so long, debts getting bigger with interest, basically not even denting the balance just covering interest.

your spending is monitored all the time..for instance if you use a CC for fuel or asda, then pay the minimum, it will get flagged and they know you are struggling. Next step is they consider you a worse risk..so down with the limit and up with the interest.

Once they start with your file, others will follow. The more of a risk, the more interest. I was doing same, but could only keep it up for so long, debts getting bigger with interest, basically not even denting the balance just covering interest.