Hello

After carefully reading a few very useful threads the time has come to post my first one:)

I've recently asked our beloved Triton for my CCA which they failed to provide on time.

After 3 weeks I received a letter from... NatWest with my CCA attached (not sure if it is the proper one).

I have posted my Account in dispute letter ( thank you;) ) to Triton and today, after a few weeks from my Dispute letter... NatWest wrote back as follows:

I am not sure why NatWest is contacting me while Triton is asking for money.

I know that they are one and the same company but I am a little bit lost here.

Any advice will be deeply appreciated.

Thank you all for all your priceless advice so far!!!

Regards

Littlebitlost:-|

NatWest.pdf

Triton will have (rightly) passed that on to NatWest & they have responded ...

Presumably Natwest sent you a reconstructed CCA

You will find a few threads around here about "true copies" and reconstructions

The true copy is from days before photocopies when documents were hand copied! They do have to be copied from the original & not a conjectured reconstruction. The OFT agree with that.

If they have supplied a conjectured reconstruction (and lets face it, they would have sent a photocopy if they found the real thing) then by claiming that they have complied with the true copy regulations they are attempting to mislead, contrary to the CPUT regulations.

They are so sure of their position that they are not prepared to enter into any further correspondence on the subject!

From now on, natwest will deny that the account is indispute & claim that black is white.

It might be worth posting a copy of the CCA with personal details removed just to make sure.

Then respond and ask if their statement was their final response on the subject prior to your FoS complaint.

Thank you so much 2Grumpy & vint1954 !

It took a little while but here is my CCA copy from NatWest:

(there is a big blue "COPY" stamp at the bottom that is not visible on tis scan)

I wouldn't go down that alley if "friendly" Triton wouldn't keep on asking for more and more every month. Could someone confirm that if I keep my previously arranged payments i.e. £10 a month on their account using their sort code and account number I will have a little chance to be taken to court please?

I owe no more than £1400.

Guys, thank you very much for your swift reply. I am really grateful:cool:

Have a great Bank Holiday!

Regards

Littlebitlost:-|

CCA Copy.pdf

It doesn't contain the prescribed terms so would be deemed unenforceable. Send them this;

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute .

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

Hi guys!

Hope you are well.

Wow, this was really quick - THANKS!

vint1954, they also included T&C's and one statement, it is all on 42 pages actually (!)

cerberusalert, thank you so much for your uplifting reply;-)

This was attached with my CCA copy and 42 pages of T&C's:

Thanks again and apologies for any confusion!

Littlebitlost

CCA2.pdf

I doubt very much whether they are the T&Cs which were on the reverse simply because it shows the new charges.

Hello!

Thanks cerberusalert, the CCA2 letter was on a separate page.

Would it be worth to keep on fighting or should I just pay what I can afford i.e. £10 a month and not give in with their bullying about paying more and more?

Thank you!;-)

I'm of the opinion that banks that reconstruct CCAs and have got it wrong, showing that they didn't use the original, should not get anything.

They can't ask for money until they supply the credit agreement

I think that asking for money on the basis of supplying an inaccurately reconstructed CCA is at least misrepresentation and may be [but more difficult to prove] attempted fraud.

It's up to you about paying

I don't & my alleged debt has bounced around different DCAs for over a year now, one only kept it for a few weeks.

2Grumpy, thank you for your reply.

I will post the letter which cerberusalert suggested back to NatWest. No more payments for now then:cool:

Thank you for your advice guys!

Vint1954 you just made my day!

Thanks for another very useful and uplifting advice.

I was about to send the letter today but I wanted to check if anyone had anything else to add:p just in case.

I take that my CCA is not exactly the right one

Guys, thank you all for your time!

The second page is folded over in the corner, presumably with a staple to the previous page. There is no staple or fold in the corner of page 1. There is nothing to say that these were related.

I'm not sure, but I thought that in 2004 the requisite terms should be before the signature box

Again, thanks very much for your advice and indeed opening my eyes:-D

I will sleep much better now:)

Hello again!

Thanks to your priceless advice I enjoyed a little break from Triton and very eagerly donated the little amount to keep this site alive;)

However NatWest wrote to me in response to my last letter which cerberusalert suggested (thank you!)

Here is NatWest

Not sure what to do next:-? and does it mean that I'll have at least 6 months break from them?

Thank you all!

littlebitlost

Final letter from NatWest.pdf

Hello

Long story short:

Until now I was paying small arranged amount on RBS card and agreed over the phone that I'll be paying much more in November

when I move to cheaper accommodation. RBS said OK, all fine.

I recently had a few miscalls on my landline and called back on some 0844 number, got through to Wescot Credit Services Ltd.

I couldn't speak to anyone and e-mailed them asking what's the reason for their calls.

They e-mailed back that it was about my RBS account.

Today I've received their 'final notice' letter in which they're demanding the whole £1400 to be paid within 14 days:rolleyes: of course.

Or: 'Claim form/Summons may be lodged with Hull County Court and legal expenses of £155 will be added '

My questions are:

Shouldn't RBS inform me that they are passing my debt to Wescot?

Should my account be defaulted before passing it to a DCA? (I never received a default notice for it)

Is it appropriate to contact me with 'final notice' if this is their first ever official letter?

Should I send CCA request ASAP or wait a week to buy some more time?

Complain to Financial Ombudsman that RBS didn't inform me about my debt being passed to a DCA?

Finally should I worry a lot at this stage?

Thank you !

Regards

littlebitlost

just cca westcrap, and dont worry about their idle threats, in fact why not ignre them completley and carry on with your arrangement with the oc until you get an oficial notice from them that they hav assigned / sold the debt on

They are nothing but chancers who dont care weather you are already repaying the debt or not.

Complain, Complain, Complain...and Complain again!

The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

Consumer Direct

Complaints - Privacy & electronic communication - ICO

The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices

In the case of Wescot complaints, you need to call 01482 380644. This by-passes the national rate number as well as the call centre and puts you in contact with the complaints dept.

Welcome to the CSA

Thank you all for reassuring me that they are what they are:D

Will send my CCA next week

Have a lovely weekend!

littlebitlost

Hi there,

First, thank you for all your advice so far!

Just received a letter from Fredrickson International Limited containing only some random reference number

and a premium rate telephone number to call immediately:rolleyes:

In their letter they also say: 'We have made tracing enquiries for confirmation of your current place of residence' which I find a little bit unnecessary and threatening.

I can only imagine that this is to do with the account which Triton and lately Wescot couldn't manage any more

and that Wescot passed it on to clowns from Fredrickson while it was still in dispute

(originally disputed with Triton about a year ago)

Should I bother to write to Wescot reminding them that they can NOT pass the account while it's in dispute or just CCA Fredrickson ?

I will be grateful if anyone could share their opinion on this as I don't want to waste another postal order;)

Thank you!

Littlebitlost

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute.

Try this edit as necessary fredricksons normally put the name of the OC in the Ref number so you can be sure who it is

Hi Hardupnotfedup,

Thanks for a quick answer. Unfortunately in this case there is only a reference number on their letter, very unclear.

Ignore it then wait for something more substantial, it could be for a debt far older, as I say I had the tracing letter but it is in regard to a new account and the DCA know where I am, so there was no need for the letter.

Hello,

Thanks!

I am sure it must be the one that originated from triton and passed through Wescot as I don't have any other outstanding ones.

Thay are phishing - it might not be your debt at all.

You say it tells you to ring on a premium rate number, is this an 090 prefix or simply an 087 prefix, if it is the latter they are not premium rate, if it is the former then a formal complaint to the OFT and OfCom is needed.