Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Hi all,
    have been following the site for a while and using all the great advice to send CCA's to RBSicon and MBNA(seperate thread). On requesting the CCA from RBS with the standard letter template and hearing nothing I sent 2 subsequent letters declaring the account in dispute. I then received a letter and documents as attached RBS let 1 1 to RBS let 1 10(attached). After several phone callsicon were I declared the account in dispute i then received letter 2 (RBS let 2 1 and RBS let 2 2 attached).
    From the first letter received is it correct that the account is not in dispute and from the second letter what would now be my next course of action.
    I greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give,

    many thanks
    JC99


  2. #2

    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Quote Originally Posted by JC99 View Post
    Hi all,
    have been following the site for a while and using all the great advice to send CCA's to RBSicon and MBNA(seperate thread). On requesting the CCA from RBS with the standard letter template and hearing nothing I sent 2 subsequent letters declaring the account in dispute. I then received a letter and documents as attached RBS let 1 1 to RBS let 1 10(attached). After several phone callsicon were I declared the account in dispute i then received letter 2 (RBS let 2 1 and RBS let 2 2 attached).
    From the first letter received is it correct that the account is not in dispute and from the second letter what would now be my next course of action.
    I greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give,

    many thanks
    JC99
    Could you scan and post the agreements?

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    I have the docs scanned but am having trouble attaching( Iam new to this), I am doing something obviously wrong but cannot see it - any ideas
    thanks


  4. #4

    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Quote Originally Posted by JC99 View Post
    I have the docs scanned but am having trouble attaching( Iam new to this), I am doing something obviously wrong but cannot see it - any ideas
    thanks

    You could download your docs to photobucketicon, then copy and paste on to this thread.

    Paul

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />
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  5. #5

    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Here is a photobucketicon how to I stole

    It seems tricky at first, but is fairly simple really.

    1, Scan your DCAicon letter/whatever you want to show on the forum.
    Ideal setting is 100dpi as it's closest to computer monitor display resolution.

    2, Save the scanned image as a jpeg


    Step 2.5 Edit out any personal information, barcodes or any other comments, notes or markings around the edge of the document. Never change the original document you received


    2.5, Load the saved image into MS Paint. (comes free with Windows.) Use the pain brush or spray can to remove/paint over any personal info, such as name, account number, address, etc. Also remove any barcodes, as some DCAs may be able to identify you from these.

    3, Create an account on Photobucket.

    4, Once you have a Photobucket account, you'll find on the main webpage little box where you can uploadicon photos. Click the "upload image" box and then tell it where on your hard disk you saved your scanned jpeg. It will then upload the image to Photobucket and it will show you thumbnails of the images you have uploaded. Under each image there are links that you can copy and paste.

    5, Copy the IMG link below the image you want to put on the forum. Then reply to thread on CAGicon. Right click with the mouse and select "paste" from the little menu that pops up.

    6, You'll then get some text appear in your message that looks a bit like this.

    [IMG www. photobucket.com/fuzzybobbe/imagename.jpg{\IMG]

    When you submit the reply, the text will change into the image you uploaded onto photobucket. The text you copied and pasted is just the information the forum needs, so it knows where to find your photo and display it in your message.



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  6. #6
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    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Paul, Silverfox

    many thanks for the fast responses. Hopefully the images below show the CCA info received from RBSicon. Do you think this complies or do I still have a case? I am getting texts now saying I must ring them immediately. Hope someone can help/advise.











    IMG]


  7. #7
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    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Paul, Silverfox

    many thanks for the fast responses. Hopefully the images below show the CCA info received from RBSicon. Do you think this complies or do I still have a case? I am getting texts now saying I must ring them immediately. Hope someone can help/advise.
    What should my next course of action be now?










    IMG]


  8. #8
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    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Here is the second letter received from RBSicon






  9. #9
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    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Seems they have just sent generic copies of agreements and so are still in default of your request. I would send them something like this - AMEND TO SUIT:


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re Account: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx and my request under the consumer crediticon Act 1974

    ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

    Thank you for your letter dated xx 2009, the contents of which are noted.

    Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xx 2009 I requested that you supply me with a copy of the original signed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. Your response to me on the xx has failed to comply with my request. Without production of the alleged agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to xx, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

    78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
    (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
    (a) the state of the account, and
    (b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
    (c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
    (6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
    (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;
    Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

    Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states:

    127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

    This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

    To clarify S.61(1) states:

    (1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless:
    (a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
    (b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
    (c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

    In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following :-

    1.Number of repayments;
    2.Amount of repayments;
    3.Frequency and timing of repayments;
    4.Dates of repayments;
    5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

    Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced.

    At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as xx become compliant with my request. As xx are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect:

    All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file.
    All collection activities cease with immediate effect until CitiFinancial comply with my request from date xx 2009.

    In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collectionicon:

    The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:

    2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
    h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

    What I Require:
    I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such. May I respectfully suggest that in the obvious absence of a legally binding agreement as outlined above, that the balance on this account be returned to zero, and all liabilities discharged and any entries which refer to missing payments be removed from Credit Reference Agencies to whom you report.
    I require that you comply with my request within 14 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well.
    No other correspondence will be accepted.
    Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.
    I trust this out lines the situation.

    Yours faithfully,
    JC99


    ......................... ...................
    Please, if you use this letter be carefull to edit accordingly - there is nothing so amateur as to leave xx's in - its a bit of a give away.
    Someone more experienced may want to confirm this is the right type of letter to use in the circumstances.
    Best of luck!.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    All,

    Have received the following from RBSicon and have checked my credit rating which is now in tatters. I really don't know what to do next, do i arrange to pay them or am I still on the right track?
    Any help is much appreciated.
    On another claim with MBNA they told me today that s78 is no longer valid - is this correct.?
    Thanks




  11. #11

    Default Re: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

    Can you post up the default notice.



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