Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS)

    Help needed please...

    This morning I received my CA from MINT. Could some CAGicon members have a look and help me work out if it is unenforceable? Thank you so much in advance. I have attached the whole file as a PDFicon to this thread and also via photobucketicon. I hope the individual links work!

    Cheers,
    Jameson


    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/CCA_MINT-1.jpg

    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/CCA_MINT-2.jpg

    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/CCA_MINT-3.jpg

    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/CCA_MINT-4.jpg

    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/CCA_MINT-5.jpg

    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/CCA_MINT-6.jpg

    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    It's an application which does not contain any of the prescribed terms, send them this;

    Dear Sirs,

    Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


    Re: my request under the consumer crediticon Act 1974

    This account is in disputeicon .

    On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.
    In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

    Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

    127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

    This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

    In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collectionicon
    The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

    2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

    h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

    I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

    Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

    I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days


    I trust this out lines the situation

    Print name do not sign

    Edit to suit

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    It's the agreement which I filled in by hand and signed at the bottom. When you say it does not contain any of the prescribed terms what do you mean exactly. I take it these "prescribed terms" are not the regular terms and conditions they have sent me such as credit limits and calculations of APR?

    Forgive me, I'm learning...


  4. #4

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Here you go:


    The Pescribed Terms are these

    A Amount of credit
    A term stating the amount of credit

    B Repayments
    A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
    (a) Number of repayments;
    (b) Amount of repayments;
    (c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
    (d) Dates of repayments;
    (e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

    C Rate of interest
    A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
    D Credit limit
    This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
    --------------------------

    Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

    For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

    BC and D Apply


    For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier
    • Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
    • The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
    • There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
    • And there is no advance payment
    A is applicable

    For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
    A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

    A and B apply

    For a Hire Agreement

    B is Applicable

    If it doesn't have the correct terms within the agreement (not the T&C's) it's unenforceable.

    David


  5. #5

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Quote Originally Posted by vint1954 View Post
    The prescribed terms have to be within the 4 corners of the signature document. Front and back of one sheet of paper.
    This is the front of my signature document: http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...CCA_MINT-2.jpg

    They sent this on one page one side only. I don't know if there is supposed to be anything on the otherside. There is no reference to a PTO on the front signature side.


  7. #7

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Because the reverse of the document is missing it is unenforceable.

    A lot of creditors scanned these documents but neglected the reverse, then they were either destroyed or lost.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Why do RBSicon rely upon a term refering to pre-contract information implying it forms part of a fixed sum agreement?

    Mine..... which is an application from Aug 2007 states something along the lines of 'that by signing this document you are confirming you have read and agree to the terms contained within the pre-contract information'

    Have had some luck with mine but...... what do you draft in a letter to RBS if they stick with this line and impose charges on your current account for defaulting on direct debits to the loan account.

    I 'thought' S.59 precluded the use of such terms?

    Sorry, meant to add; it was the 3rd jpg attachment above. Paragraph 3 'declaration and authorisation' refers to other documents

    Thanks

    Gez

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  9. #9

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    subbin in


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Update after 9 months...

    Has been to Triton>>>Newman>>> and now Moorcroft sitting with Midas legal team for the past few weeks.

    Hopefully get some mail this week


  12. #12

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    If it carries on much longer it'll be statute barredicon anyway.

    Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

    Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Has been to Triton>>>Newman>>> and now Moorcroft sitting with Midas legal team for the past few weeks.

    Nothing to worry about there then.

    David


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Quote Originally Posted by cashins View Post
    Nothing to worry about there then.
    All quiet on the western front...


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    Quote Originally Posted by cerberusalert View Post
    If it carries on much longer it'll be statute barredicon anyway.
    Few more years to go for SB to kick in... my how time flys!

    Wish all my defaults were on the same month and same year!


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Help Please: CCA Received today from MINT (RBS) - Links

    moorcroft wrote last week chasing...
    Sent Morecrap another letter to get lost and to = take formal notice that other than a summons, or an appropriate response to my complaint indicating the immediate closure, if they contact me again on this matter then I will invoice moorcroft 35.00 administration fee for my time-consuming response.

    Letter arrived today acknowledging my letter (& terms) and everything is on hold again while they investigate...

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