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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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RBS/Carter claimform - Mint Card - CCA Is This Enforeable?


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Hi,

Ive CCA'd Mint for my card agreement and they have seemingly sent a good copy of a signed agreement.

They also attached a 3 pages of a photocopied set of Terms & Conditions.

Lots of very small print that will not scan & copy very well so have not included it here at the moment.

 

Could someone please have a look at the Credit agreement an tell me if you think that it is enforceable or what action to take next to try and verify it.

 

They sent current T&C's plus a Card re-issue letter with associated T&C's

Also current outstanding values owed to the account.

The signature, dates, my information and name all seem to be correct.

Have also attached the letter they sent with it.

 

Hope you can give me some good news.

Thanx

Murph

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Thanx Cerberus,

Appreciated the fast reply and clear help pointers.

I'll read through that and see where i go next.

O/S balance approx £10k

Will I need to CPS to get docs or SARN them?

Yours

Murph

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You could try them with this first;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

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Hi Cerberus,

Thank you for pointing out the missing aspects that are required.

I wouldn't have known what I was looking for.

I've done a letter as suggested and will send it recorded delivery.

On the 19th june I received a letter advising of my account termination.

See copy of 2 pages here.

 

Do I need to respond to this and in what way please?

I much appreciate all this help as things were getting pretty bad all round.

Yours

Murph

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Hi Cerberus,

Yes, they sent me a default notice way back on the 20th May 2009, received 23/05/09, along with OFT Leaflet

 

They also sent a letter acknowledging my I & E financial statement separately on the same day.

 

Where does this leave me now?

Will the letter that I've just done based on your suggestion above create a delay or should I be looking at going down the CPR route?

Thanks for your help.

Yours

Murph

Edited by MurphyW
Revising picture links - Same documents as originals
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The Default Notice is defective because they are required to stipulate a remedy date, it is not sufficient just to state that it has to be remedied within 17 days of the date of the notice. When they terminate the a/c they will only be able to claim the arrears, the remaining balance will in effect have to be written off.

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  • 4 months later...

Hi Cerberus,

Well it has been quite quiet for some time.

They did respond to my SA request with a load of papers and the same application form as in my previous post.

 

No proper CCA with all the prescribed terms and signatures.

They have now sent me this letter threatening further action to sell the debt.

What 's the next possible course of action considering they have issued a duff default notice and there would not appear to be a true CCA?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not in a position to pay these people anything at the moment. I had hoped to be able to have a new business into profit by now but still struggling.

Murphy

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________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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Hi everyone,

They have finally passed the debt onto their lackeys at Triton (Owned by RBS) to collect some money. I don't think so!!

 

I don't have any! They do not have a valid CCA, did not issue the default notice correctly and have now terminated the account.

 

Should I write to Triton?

Which is the best letter to use.

Refer them back to Mint?

How should I proceed with Mint now?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Yours Murphy

Edited by MurphyW
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Thanks for the fast reply Cerberus,

I take it that I amend that letter and address it to triton but referring to all details that have occurred with Mint rather than RBS who were the original lender.

How would I find out what date they entered a default notice on my credit file please?

Yours

Murphy

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Hi Guys,

Don't be too exasperated with me!!

Thanks for the heads up over my name.

I usually try to check but must have been in a bit of a hurry with that one.

Have changed the links IMG's. Thanks for the tip.

Murphy

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Hi Cerberus,

I signed up for the credit file check.

There is an initial one off registration fee to pay of £2.50 but this gives you access to the key relevant bits of the different accounts and their status.

You can get more information by paying a wee bit more of £4.97 per year if anyone wants to.

I suggest that these are both great value when viewed avgainst the competition "Check my file" etc.

Yours

Murphy

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Hi There,

I sent the letter but took out the references to the data protection bit as they have not got a default registered with the credit reference agencies.

The flag has been set to Green OK rather than D even after the 6 months of missed / reduced payments.

I'll keep that bit for later if the indicator is changed.

Yours

Murphy

Letter as here: -

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again,

They've now passed my letter 17 back to Mint who have acknowledge it by saying that they are looking into the matter!

 

It will be interesting to see what they have to say next.

Will keep you up to date as and when.

Murphy

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  • 1 month later...

Well they've taken a while to enjoy their xmas break and Triton have decide they need to try and move things along.

I've not had any response from the enquiries that Mint were going to make yet!

Triton think they can push with this letter: -

 

 

I think I'll write and refer them to Mint's response and my last letter and tell them to stop chasing me for payment.

Has anyone any other ideas how to treat this please?

Yours

Murph

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Empty threats M. Will do no harm to write and keep that paper trail going but no harm in ignoring it. Personally, i'd ignore it. It's empty :)

 

M

________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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  • 3 months later...

Hi again,

Well time goes on and on 24th March 2010 Mint finally replied to my letter of contention basically refuting what i said and looks like challenging me to make the first move in a legal action on the second page ...

 

I decided to wait and see what they would do next.

No point in starting legal costs on my side.

Yours

Murph

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