BBC NEWS | UK | Pre-pay meter users 'due rebate'

Well Well Well.....

Yeah but how do we start the claims process? I would guess it's pretty pointless going direct to the energy companies and saying "give us the money back u robbing *****", has anyone started this yet and can advise the rest of us?

MMMM could be a good summer if we manage to get a rebate, in winter i was putting £100 a month on my meter so that could possibly mean an overpayment of £800 +

Lets go get them

Here is a direct link to the National Housing Federation website.

NHF have been actively campaigning for OFGEM to take more responsibility in bringing to task energy providers for breach of EU regulations.

The vast majority of pre-payment meter users are those at the lower end of the financial spectrum and the premium rates that they have been forced to pay for life's basic needs, i.e. Heating, light, cooking, washing etc has perhaps impacted more on their lives than unlawful bank penalty charges.

I can see no more a blatant example of how the poor and disadvantaged are being made to subsidise those more able (...if you can call having the ability to set up a Direct Debt payment plan 'more able' ) and to swell the coffers of the energy companies so as to boost shareholders dividends.

It is interesting to note that in Northern Ireland those on benefits receive an actual discount on their energy bills.

Direct Debit payment plans have also led to some peeps being overcharged on estimate meter readings and an unexpecting householder finding themselves incurring unlawful bank penalty charges.

I can see no reason whatsoever, why a person could not take similar recovery action to reclaim the additional monies already paid to the energy companies, as that which has already been taken by zillions of peeps to reclaim their OWN money back from the financial institutions.

The same path of Preliminary Letter, LBA and County Court process (...if necessary) could be followed.

All it would need is a simple topic related tinkering with the current CAG Letter Templates.

Perhaps a proactive Site Team Member could facilitate this for peeps not confident enough to be able to do it themselves?

Spoke to Naomi on 08454 04 05 06 who advised that as yet there had been no actual ruling on the matter of prepayment meter overcharging. The advice is to raise a complaint with the energy supplier, in writing, and they have 10 working days in which to reply. If they fail to do so then speak to Consumer Direct again who will escalate further.

Hope this helps people wanting to start the ball rolling, as I do.

Not a bad plan Milktrayman, altho I'm not a site team member etc, I'm going to knock one up anyway along those lines and bang it up here.

Hmm just a thought, would not the opener be better with an amended SAR? All very well going for the Prelim Letter, but how would we know how much is being reclaimed? I would have thought that the least we would need from the SAR would be the amount they have charged versus the amount charged to "normal" consumers, from there calculating the differences between the two?

... how would we know how much is being reclaimed? I would have thought that the least we would need from the SAR would be the amount they have charged versus the amount charged to "normal" consumers, from there calculating the differences between the two?

The only information that could be obtained would be recorded details that are kept on file pertaining to the individual (Subject) making the request...i.e. Bill Payments for useage at whatever tariff that person was charged at.

What also would be needed would be a complete list of other more favourable tariffs, so that a direct comparison could be made and the maths worked out prior to the intial, "Can I have my own money back please" letter.

I am unsure as to whether they would be legally obliged to supply this 'non-subject' information within the scope of a S.A.R.

Certainly, in a similar vein, the financial institutions were not forthcoming with historic %APR's.

I am therefore inclined to assume that each energy companies tariffs for any given period would have to be researched from elsewhere.

Even if there doesn't yet exist a database that has been produced by a third party and is readily accessible to the general public, I'm sure that there are enough individuals who would readily offer forward the said information if an appeal was made and highlighted, similar to the request for historic Current Account T&C's.

The collation of which, if found to be necessary, may be more easily appropriated and published by a Site Team Member,although I'm sure that any contributions by other Users of CAG would be most valued, Rayne.

In that case I shall happily dig out what bills I DO have for Scottish Power, as they still send them even being on a ppm, and start posting the unit rates / standing charges for the different periods at the earliest possible opportunity

I've had pre pay meters for years out of choice. I just find it easier to budget and no risk of big bills every quarter. The higher cost however has been one of my pet hates for years, and I have never understood the need to charge a higher rate for the same product. At the end of the day I pay in advance, no chance of me being a bad customer really.

I will definately be interested in this as it unfolds.

Prepay customers pay more because the apparatus of the method costs more. The meters are more complex & expensive & the whole paraphernalia of paying agents for processing payments & then the cost of staff to look after these customers are a significant cost to the suppliers.

Most of the additional cost is in the form of standing charges. The actual unit prices don't vary that much from standard quarterly credit customers.

Suppliers make very little money from them compared to credit customers & most would gladly be rid if they could!

Due to the huge increases in energy costs, this has become an issue. The government has decided that they will use the suppliers as a political instrument to subsidise these customers & the people who pay for it, are all of the customers who pay by other merhods.

If the government wants to use the energy suppliers to be an instrument of social policy, they should pay for it!

...Suppliers make very little money from them compared to credit customers & most would gladly be rid if they could!

Due to the huge increases in energy costs, this has become an issue. The government has decided that they will use the suppliers as a political instrument to subsidise these customers & the people who pay for it, are all of the customers who pay by other merhods.

If the government wants to use the energy suppliers to be an instrument of social policy, they should pay for it!

I would suggest to you davehsug, that you are sadly mistaken if you are of the belief that energy companies are subsidising those customers who are reluctantly having to endure pre-payment meters.

Energy Suppliers margins are up since the summer of 2008

As for other customers who pay by other methods...i.e. Direct Debit, also subsidising pre-payment meter users, I am totally dismayed at such a selfish statement.

It is the same argument that has been put forward by those peeps who have said that as they have never been overdrawn and have enjoyed 'free' banking at the expense of those who have become engulfed by the excessive and unlawful bank penalty charges, demanded by the financial institutions to maintain their profit margins, why should they have to lose out?

Whilst I am not advocating peeps should not maintain a degree of responsibility for their energy consumption, I would certainly contend that it is not beyond feasibility that circumstances such as unemployment, divorce, death of the major bread winner, sickness etc could not affect each and any one of us unexpectedly through no fault of our own.

Likewise, are you advocating that the additional winter fuel payments to the elderly are also curtailed davehsug?

It is a very heartless person who can turn is own fire up a notch in the middle of winter, whilst at the same time being aware that the little old lady next door has the bleak choice of eating that day or perhaps dying of hypothermia.

Tax plan for winter fuel poverty

Unfortunately, for many peeps on benefits and using pre-payment meters, they also face similar, if less dramatically put, 'lifestyle' choices.

as the agents, corner shop , local garage etc etc only get 1p in the £1 of what they collect then it does not wash, nor are the meters that more expensive, and as the collection is almost fully automated , and there are no bill to produce bad debts to collect, in real time its a better option for the supply company's, all it is an option to get more from those that cant afford the higher price in the first place

No difference, assumig you are prepared to ignore the additional provision of back-office systems to control and administer the REQUIREMENT to offer pre-pay infrastructure to customers that require it, or as a fall-back for thsse that cannot cope with a credit meter. Currently, I pay for nearly 20 visits a year to read my two meters, I have no doubt the cost of this labour-intensive task is paid for by me as part of my tariff or standing charge.

Pre-pay meters whether using cards, keys, commissions to agents &c, the cost of electricity by this method will be greater - so I cannot accept an argument that the cost is dispropotionate. Just as those who make a positive decision NOT to pay by DD, even though I pay electronically at my cost, I still pay 'more' than someone who does not. But I still have the 'choice' to save money an change. But I like to be in control. Therefore, those who choose to pay with a pre-pay meter, similarly choose to pay the going rate or switch to a different supplier should they offer a better deal.

Here is a quote that is taken from a BBC Devon internet report on pre-payment meters from 7th July 2008

"...Southern Electric said its prepayment customers were not charged at a higher rate, but did not benefit from discounts available to other customers."

Excuse me for having a social concious, but doesn't that sound very much like one rule for the rich and another for the poor?

...I still have the 'choice' to save money an change. But I like to be in control. Therefore, those who choose to pay with a pre-pay meter, similarly choose to pay the going rate or switch to a different supplier should they offer a better deal.

Unfortunately Buzby, for many peeps, they don't have a choice about having to use a pre-payment meter.

Energy suppliers compulsorily install them when a person fails, through whatever reason, to pay their bill (...often an estimated one at that. ).

For some peeps who have had Direct Debits set up, this has been caused by unlawful bank penalty charges being debited from their current account, thus causing a shortfall for those peeps on a tight budget.

This consequential snowballing effect is further exacerbated by it being extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a consumer to switch to a cheaper energy supplier until the debt is repaid.

In effect, the pre-payment meter becomes a pseudo-debt collector at point of source and removes all choice of how a person can deal with their possibly numerous debts as a whole.

I'm sorry if I came across as unsympathetic. I was merely stating a few facts. There seems to be a widespread misconception that suppliers are, or have been "ripping off" prepay customers & that simply isn't true.

The government has been happy to allow this view, even encourage it, to heap pressure on the suppliers to reduce prices. This, most have now done.

I was trying to make the point that if the government wanted people on prepay meters to have lower prices, to the point where it's uneconomic for the companies to supply, the companies are not charities & the government should make a contribution to what is, in effect a subsidy.

If the government want all energy customers to be treated in exactly the same way, they should take the companies back into public ownership & set the same tariff nationwide, irrespective of payment method.

Sorry again if I came across as heartless. I most certainly am not. I just thought it was an interesting angle that some may not have considered or been aware of.

I think you have a point actually davehsug. People choose to change supplier because they offer lower prices after governments introduce free competition in the utility marketplace - yet then the government involve themselves in stating that prepayment meters should be cheaper thus interfering in the free market.

By the same token, why don't they look into companies that offer special deals for new customers, yet do not make these deals available to existing customers? That is just as much a two-tier system.

Everyone should have light and warmth in their house, just as they should have water. Maybe it should not be left to the free market to fulfil a basic need?

for all of you interested there is now a template letter on the national housing federation website to complete and send to appropiate energy supplier requesting a rebate.

I know I shall be sending my letter this weekend,definitly worth a try!

...there is now a template letter on the national housing federation website to complete and send to appropiate energy supplier requesting a rebate.

Here is a direct link to the NHF letter template webpage.

...There is also a concise and helpful FAQ's section on the same page.

I'm going to make this thread a stickie as many caggers will doubtless be wanting to make a claim.

"why don't they look into companies that offer special deals for new customers, yet do not make these deals available to existing customers? That is just as much a two-tier system."

Same thing happens with insurance and nobody complains. Well I do but I like a fight

The REAL problem which nobody in governement is talking about is the looming energy shortgage facing the UK. Despite what some people would like to think public ownership would not protect us against this without massive subsidies (which you will pay for in taxes).

We need new power stations, we need refoms of the European markets, and we need to ensure nobody has to chose whether to heat or eat.

On what basis would there be an obligation for the Utility Company to provide account and transaction data without seeking any fee ?

we11 my brother whos with british gas and my mate whos with eon got the fob off 1etter simi1ar to the one from the banks i as yet have had nothing so what do they do now do we go with the pre1im 1etter cos i dont mind taking it on for them but dont wanna be the first to take the power company to court xxxkia

I am going to try this myself once I can get a moment.

I have had an electricity pre pay meter for the last 12 years and possibly more.

I have always kept communications and bills from them (Manweb and later Scottish Power)

I did a subject access to them in 2006.

They were over a month late supplying it.

Amongst the stuff they sent was copies of bills,letters,payment details and meter history logs.

I did request telephone transcripts but the state they only keep these for 6o days and there were none.

I agree with MTM here,we need to create a database of info that can assist everyone and determine the overcharge levels-which are obviously going to vary from one supplier to another.