Hi again,

I sent a CCA request to monument credit card and they have sent a letter which I don't think is correct in that it states that "under section 78 a "Copy" for the purposes of the CCA does not refer to an exact copy of the agreement you signed"

Please can someone confirm that this is not true.

I've attached their letter (Identifiers removed) and also a copy of the "Reply Card" that had my signature on it but that I don't believe is the correct item for a valid credit card agreement.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentCCAReplyLetterpt1.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentCCAReplyLetterpt2.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentReplyCardforCCA.jpg

Please confirm that this is not a correct CCA document as all the terms required are not included. I recall that this was originally a Providian Card which I think Barclays bought out and then sold on to St Raphaels Bank.

They have also sent 4 sheets of the terms and conditions that look as though theyve been printed on to standard St Raphael's notepaper which can not have been the original terms and conditions but a newer or current version.

I would just like confirmation that my thoughts are right to send them the standard default letter for non-compliance with my request to supply the correct information under the CCA request within the specified 12 days +2.

Thank you for any help you are able to give.

Yours

Murph

Hi,

What they are saying about omitting details is technically correct but if they had the agreement, why would they send what you have received? All that you have received is a pile of poo.

I like this letter:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172071-letter-co-solicitors.html#post1856406

They will bleat about it being enforceable but it ain't

Hi Silverfox,

Thanks for the reply.

I felt sure that this was a load of.... but really wanted a more experienced view to confirm my next action.

The letter you pointed me to is the one that I was planning to use so thanks for that and great minds think alike etc.

Yours

Murphy

hiya

i got the same and havent paid them,,,disputed it and they have just been sending statements,,,, keep calling about 4 times a day i dont hear it as ive blocked them have truecall

so good luck,,,have you yet sent a sars request to get all the info they hold on you?

might be worth the tenner so to see what info and what charges you have ever had

have a fun day laters angel x

Thanks Angel 1,

Not done Sars request yet. Will see how it goes and maybe check that out in a couple of months.

Alternatively if they get too bullish will have to go down the CPS route.

Interesting to hear how they responded to you though.

Best,

Murphy

Hi all,

Well Monument replied to my letter that pointed ou that they had not supplied the correct information.

In the usual run of things they did the usual and explained the key terms of the CCA1974 and that they believe that they have complied etc. etc.

(See the purporting to be CCA reply card in post#1)

I have now received a Final Notice along with a default notice.

Could one of you more knowledgeable than me please have a look and give me a pointer as to what my next move orr response should be considering that the only form they have supplied was a reply card and not a compliant agreement.

The notice is here: -

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentDNAccClosureLtrpt1.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentDNAccClosureLtrpt2.jpg

It looks as though all the correct elements are there but they still have not provided a verified CCA so should I pursue this via CPR or SARN?

Any help appreciated pleas.

Yours

Murph

The default notice is defective, they have to allow you 14 days from service to remedy, see;

Defective default notices explained;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2166205.html

if these two documents were sent in the same envelope as the date on letter is 19th June there would be 2 day by first class and 4 days by seconds class making the date of service 21st or 23rd, the a remedy date of 3rd July does not give 14 clear day to remedy the breach, so my opinion is that notice is defective

Hi Cerberus and Alf.

Thank you for the quick replies. I'll spend a bit of time reading through the info on Defective Default Notices... I've just been through there and see what you mean. The letter was sent 2nd class postage on 19th June and arrived (was served) on 25th (4 working days later) therefore the 14 days starts from the 25th. Just been reading some great info from X20 too but got a bit lost so will have to try again when I'm a bit more awake.

Alf the tow letters were sent in separate envelopes and I also had a third which was my normal monthly statement from them too! (No expense saved there then!)

What should my next move be? wait until after 3rd July when the notice date they gave expires or wait for the full 14 days from date of service. What will the next move be then?

All help gratefully received - thanks.

Yours

Murph

You have to wait now for them to send you a 'Termination Notice', when they close the a/c they will only be able to claim the arrears, the remaining balance will have to be written off. So keep the defective DN & envelope for future use & keep stum about the duff notice.

Hi Cerberus,

They've been quiet for a while but I have now had a message asking me to contact them by 8pm tonight! (Obviously I'm not going to call!)

Could you please explain / clarify your comment in respect of them claiming the arrears and writing off the remaining balance. Is this the accrued arrears since the faulty notice or everything that I owe since I stopped paying the monthly minimums?

Hope you can clarify this.

Is it worth my while to follow up with a CPR 31:16 or should I SARN them to show that I have followed the route to give them as much time as is reasonable?

Thanks for your help

Murph

Have a read through http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/200901-anatomy-default-notice.html particularly the links in post #1 it'll explain things in more detail.

Thank you Cerberus.

Very interesting. I'll explore that a bit more later on or tomorrow.

Murph

Hi again,

Well Monument have now decided to pass this to Portland House to collect the debt.

I've written Portland the "Bemused" letter in response to theirs referring them back to Monument as the account is in "Serious Default" etc. etc.

I also have a SAR in place with Monument which I'm waiting to see if they actually respond to. It was posted 5th August and received by monument but they haven't bothered to cash the £10 cheque yet.

Be interesting to see the next action. Will keep you informed.

Murph

Here are some ongoing notes and letter responses that i would appreciate a view as to where this is likely to go next and also for other monument customers to be able to follow for future reference.

Just going back slightly

On the 19th July Monument sent me a letter with changes to my T&C's due to take effect 1st November 2009 and within that they notified me that they were closing my account

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/190709MonumentLtr30daysClosureofAcc.jpg

This actually arrived on 29th July 2009.

In the interim I received a final demand letter dated 20/07/09 when my ouotsatnding balance had now exceeded £5k

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/200709MonumentLtrFinalDemand.jpg

I'll carry on the episode to Portland House on the next entry.

Hi again,

So now we have Portland House (Monument Slaves) sending me a formal notice. Now is this really reasonable behaviour considering that I had asked them to consider a nominal £1 a month payment for six months at the end of March 2009?

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/200809MonumentLtrFormalNotice.jpg

I wrote to them clearly stating that this account was in serious dispute on 31st August.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/310809ToPortlandHseAccountinDispute.jpg

In the next stage they now notified me of intended action on 21st September.

Should I be doing anything with this?

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/210909MonumentLtrNoticeofIntendedAc.jpg

and now on 20th October they have sent me a final notice

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/201009MonumentLtrFinalNotice.jpg

What is the next step likely to be please.

If they decide to persue this through the court route where abouts is the hearing likely to be arranged to take place. Do I get any say in the location?

Look forward to any pointers and advice.

Murph.

Now everyone,

While Portland House are phoning and writing to me, Monument reply to my SARN and send me a nice white envelope with copies of all my previous monthly statements, a listing of all the calls and contact that they have tried to make and further copies of my original Reply Card purporting to be my CCA with their original letter.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/100909MonumentSARNLtrResponse.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentSARNSentReCreditAgreement.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentReplyCardForSARNCCAReply.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/MonumentRaphaels1stPAGETCs.jpg

Notice the set of current terms and conditions supplied on four separate sheets of A4 paper (Only the front one here) Headed with the Monument name (Originally Providian) then owned by Barclays before Raphaels Bank took the business off Barclay's hands.

Certainly not the original T&C's.

I have similar issues elsewhere but I would be grateful to know if I have a potential case against Monument both for the lack of the true CCA and also the incorrectly handled Default Notice

Yours

Murph

Hi again,

Well as far as I can see they have done themselves no favours here.

No valid CCA

Faulty DN

Terminated the account.

As previously advised, they can now only claim the arrears, not the full balance and as there isn't a valid CCA, they can only ask you for the arrears, not enforce it (unless they are stupid)

They will continue to press for payment but you have no obligation (as yet) to pay a penny.

Your credit file is surely stuffed by them but there's not a lot you can do about that without going to court.

Hello again,

Some time later...

Monument still keep sending me a monthly statement showing that the minimum monthly amount to be paid is due. This seems to be increasing by £50 a month! The present balance figure on the account however, isn't changing.

Is there any point in writing to them to stop this or to ask what the £50 increase is being charged for?

Thanks for your comments Silver Fox.

Will keep an eye on what they try on but not heard much from them... may be tempting fate?

Murphy

Hi again,

I received this letter from Monument on 02/01/10.

They refer to a letter in "about June 2007"

This was not included in the SARN information received.

I suspect that they do not have a copy on file as they would have supplied it.

Do I now wait for J C International to contact me and then refer them back to Monument as the account is in default?

Any ideas of the best way to treat this please?

The value they are asking for is just over £5k.

Yours

Murphy

What a classic way of trying to get you to ring them. "If you ring us we won't do this, if you don't ring we will do that". A total no win situation as if you ring them, they will do the normal stuff of trying to intimidate you and if you don't ring, they will pass the debt on but of course if they pass they debt on you can send another "bemused letter"

Personally, I would ignore their stupid letter.

fox

Thanks Silverfox,

Sounds like good advice.

I'll see what happens next and keep in touch when they take any action.

Yours

Murphy

Well hi again.

These guys have some great ideas but I'm sure the FSA would love to see this one.

Monument AKA Compucredit placed my account with JCIAC on 22nd December 2009 or thereabouts.

(JCIAC is operated by Compucredit!)

On 25th Jan I have received a wonderful special "balance transfer programme" offering me a great RISE Visa credit card if I agree to pay certain amounts of £104 monthly for 12 months at 18.9% to pay off my debt to them! They will even allow me a bit of balance at the end to spend... generous to a fault.

I don't have the money to pay this much anyway let alone take out a new RISE credit card.

(Rise is managed / owned by St Raphaels Bank!)

Should I complain to the FSA and the Ombudsman about this tactic?

Here's the form: -

I'll write to them and say that while it is in default with the original credit company they should stop pestering me and that under the terms I do not owe them any money because of their actions and lack of a clear CCA etc. etc.

Any other suggestions appreciated on this one for the moment.

Yours

Murph

Hi Murphy,

Having a search round here today for anyone dealing with Monument, I have a thread for mine but not getting a lot of response, so maybe we can compare notes as we go along, as mine is similar to yours buy the looks of what you have been sent.

Like you, mine was closed in July last year, had nearly always paid on time, so not much in charges to claim back but it does have their disguised PPI, otherwise known as 'payment break plan' and nothing in the SAR reveals how this came to be charged.

Here is my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/239332-monument-cca.html

Have you sent any response to their 'fantastic' offer?

Seems like they are trying to blackmail you into signing a new agreement, which, of course would be enforceable. Wonder how the FOS would look upon this?

I have just put mine into dispute and cancelled the direct debit so expect calls will start soon.

hey guys

i feel so left out ive not had one of these yet,,,,,,

hiya dotty have posted on your thread too - wonder if you guys and if others agree - maybe now time to send complaint to fos

i think this offer would make interesting reading to them too

just my mere mad humble opinion

have a fun day laters angel x

Hi Again,

It's been a wee while since I updated this as so little has happened during the last few months.

Here is some update with a further offer from Compucredit for me to take out a new agreement - I should think NOT!

More importantly an offer that is linked to the R Raphael & Sons as lender!

How would I report this to the Ombudsman or FSA?

Yours

Murphy

more to follow!

So then on 10th July I receive a notice from Circuit Financial: -

To which I send a bemused reply: -

They obviously have ignored my letter totally so watch this space for further developments in future!

Yours Murphy

And so it goes on : -

then after a pause: -

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/CircuitDebtNotification230710.jpg"]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/MurphyW_2009/MonMent/CircuitFinalDemandNotice240810.jpg[/img]"]

and now an offer to allow me to pay them back with a review after 3 months.

Obviously a good way to get me to pay them something which they are not entitled to!: -

I wonder what their next move will be?

I think I will send them a thank you for your offer letter but you are not entitled to collect it as the account is in serious dispute with Monument and you have not provided a legitimate signed CCA so go back and ask them for it!

Will keep you updated as and when something develops on this one.

Yours

Murphy

Well I tried to edit the last post but the words were all scrambled on the bottom nd I couldn't get in to re-post the Circuit notice that seems to have been missed. of 27/08/2010

I hope this is shown now.

Murphy

Hi again,

I wrote to Circuit after they sent me their letter telling me they were assessing pre - litigation team.

They then sent their letter giving me minimum amounts monthly to pay off my alleged debt.

They could not be bothered to reply to my earlier letter so I sent them a further "Bemused" letter as below: -

It seems they have ignored this letter too as they have now offered me an early settlement of "Up To" 50%

I don't plan to take them up on this offer!

Just wonder what anyone elses' experience has been with Circuit and what action to follow next.

I am minded to ask them to produce a signed copy of my CCA or to stop any further action.

Any other ideas welcome.

Yours

Murph