Hi

Today had reply from Sainsburys, which I have attached. Is it me, or does this response seem a little overboard? I only asked for a copy of my agreement!

This card is up to date, paid by dd with no problems (at the moment).

I do not want to evade the debt but due to circumstances, want to see if I can get a satisfactory full and final settlement and of course the amount I can offer will depend on others that I have requested CCA's on.

Any thoughts or experiences with this company would be appreciated.

Think I have deleted any personal stuff.

Think I might set up a business selling Tippex!

Sorry missed a name so can't attach today will have to wait till monday:mad:

Well, this company is the pits, i have had a loan with them for 6 yrs and never missed a payment until 4 months ago, my husband has no work. I v written to them and paid a £1 token until i get an interview with the C.C.C.S, but they do not want to know, just received a letter from a D.C, Sainsburys have transferred it to them. So that says it all. Total s***s

Unless my eye sight's playing up Dotty, there's nothing attached??

Nothing wrong with your eyesight WelshMam, realised very quickly that I had omitted to delete my name on something so had to remove it immediately.

Won't be able to re-scan until monday when I am back at work.

Sooner the better I'm waiting to see what you post up. I'm going to CCA sainsburys next week. Been on a DMP now redundant finding it hard to get another job after this months payments they're going to get £1. Been paying them 12 months now on DMP so I bet my reply back is going to say tough.

DG

Hi Senferlaka,

Doesn't sound promising, have they not responded at all to you?

Must admit, the more I think about the reply the more angry I get, it's sort of 'Up yours mate' we got it right (they may well have) so tough!

Hi, Diamondgirl,

Got it in one!

Right, now deleted personal info ( hope not missed anything)!

As I said previously I am not planning on running away from this debt but want to try and get best F & F possible as my circumstances have now changed (for the worse) and income soon to reduce.

REPLY WITH DELETIONS.pdf

CREDIT AGREEMENT.pdf

They have sent you an application form which does not contain the prescribed terms within the four corners of the document so it is rendered unenforceable.

Hi Cerberusalert,

Thanks for your assistance.

Isn't page 4 a copy of the agreement though? This has my signature and has been executed.

page four, i cannot see any apr, credit limit, repayments etc.

they have sent you and application and a sperate t and c's, not good enough i would send:

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute .

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form and a copy of your current terms and conditions which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

I trust this out lines the situation

edit to suit

ida x

Thank you everyone.

I was thinking of replying to them that had they not alerted me to the websites in their letter, i would have been completely in the dark regarding the question of enforceability and in view of the pure aggressiveness of their response i will be taking further advice! Just to make sure.

Then followed up very quickly with the letter advised by Idainfife, I think.

Help anyone please

I have attached a letter which I am considering sending to them but any thoughts would be appreciated before posting it out.

I would then follow it up with the 'in dispute' letter as previously advised.

Thanks in anticipation.

2nd letter to Sainsburys with deletions.doc

Hi,

Anyone had a chance to look at my letter?

Is it worth sending?

Have read so many Threads and it seems that a lot of CCC's just ignore what you write to them and just send out standard letters from their letter libraries and don't address any of the personal issues, when you are asking them for help with payments.

If I send the account in dispute, is it better to stop payments? Really worried about messing up my credit rating, but also want them to take notice as what I really want to do is offer a F & F asap but these only seem to be offered when an account is in arrears.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Hi Anyone

Would appreciate any opinions please, had this reply today to my letter sent (in post 13)

All the prescribed terms are not showing, as Idainfife and Cerberusalert said, Sainsburys say it is enforceable, what would anyone advise now. I am considering making an offer of F & F but what figure do I start at?

Also not sure exactly what they mean in the last two sentences "this only prevents one party from enforcing the agreement through the courts".

If it's in dispute, which it isn't yet, I thought the law stated that no information can be passed to CRA's and no collection activity allowed.

REPLY 2 - WITH DELETIONS.pdf

Bump

Is this what you do to try and get a response from anyone?

x

Hi Anyone out there had any experience with Sainsburys CC?

Hi Dotty

Well I've not sent off my CCA yet to them (see thread Sainsburys and Me) that I've started. I've sent them off a letter in response to their letter stating I've written to them previous to have the interest frozen and never had any response. Now that this letter states I'm well over the credit limit I told them this was because they've just kept adding interest every month and I want it stopped (doubt they will agree to it.) So I thought lets wait for the reply and then I'm going to CCA them. When I took out the card with them my application was nothing like the one you posted.

I also don't understand the bit in the letter about one party etc., so I'm subbing with interest to see what the outcome of that is. I'm sure someone with the knowledge will let us know.

DG:)

Hi Dotty, I hope you don't mind me chipping in.

I have received the same thing that you posted up here! a typed application form ,another document claiming to be an agreement (It has my sig and a member of sainsburys staff but no prescribed terms). I also have a two page document that contains info about limits and repayments etc,none of which is personal to me e.g nowhere in any of these documents is my personal credit limit. The 2 pages of info is called 'credit agreement regulated blah blah' but is actually no more than generic T+C'S. And even tho they sent a document headed up 'cca 1974' with my signature on it they then go on to state they don't HAVE to supply a copy of signed credit agreement.I am confused!

Did you make contact with them yet? I am writing a letter stating its not enforceable but am wondering what their move after that will be.

Any advice?

xx

Hi Johannab,

Sorry for delay in posting, have been away and been trying to sort other cards as well. Seems that I am getting nowhere fast, it is so frustrating!

Yet to decide what to do with Sainsburys, have recently written to Halifax offering an amount to settle but not yet received any reply (Bank of Scotland, same as Sainsbury's) so was hoping for a reply before I do anything else with this one.

hi Dotty!

Thanks for responding. Blair, oliver and scott coincidentally resent the 'credit agreement' to me yesterday ! I need to get back to them its STILL not valid.

I can see its going to be a long battle, like you I will probably make an offer. What kind of percentage did you offer ?

Jo

Hi johannab,

Offered around 30% but not on Sainsbury's only on my Halifax CC, they appear to have a valid CCA but Sainsburys only produced a copy of the application.

I will be deciding tomorrow what my next course of action will be but will keep my threads posted of any developements.

Well, if there is anyone still subbing to this thread, having taken on 2 MBNA, 1 Capital one and 1 Halifax fight, I just couldn't cope with this one as well and have continued to pay.

Now being a little further down the road with the others, although the only positive result is the Halifax, I will now get cracking on this one.

Question is, where do I re-start?

I requested CCA at end of April and received a copy application and current T & C's (showing in earlier posts) I made no response to this, which they sent on 8th June.

The next natural step would be to put the account in dispute for failure to produce required documentation but due to the time elapsing, would that still be appropriate?

Any advice or opinions greatly appreciated.

yes carry on with dispute

Hi Ida,

Thanks for responding, will find the relevant letter in the library on here.

Dotty