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Help I need help this is the letter just received from Tescos. I have not received any signed agreement only a copy with my credit limit etc added. This is not the original as I have moved and the address on the agreement is my current one. Can anybody advise what next please

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Would you believe just opened todays post. I have a letter requesting full payment within 14 days. I had already requested that they suspended the interest adn made an offer of a fixed amount every month. They now say as the offer is below the 3% required they will now put in hands of DCA. I can't believe this I have completed an income and outgoings form which they requested and now they are just ignoring everything and the letter also states that unless repayment proposals acceptable to them have not been made within 28 days I will be reported to Credit Reference agencies. They haven't even had the decencies to respond to my proposal. How Rude is that.!!!!

Now I am even more confused 2 letters today one states. That I am behind with my payments and asking me to contact them. The other has agreed a payment plane for 6 months and deferrment of interest. They can't keep any notes on their computers as everything is contradictory. I think I will just pay the sum they have said. I can just about manage it. Or should I write and ask for the correct CCA.? Help!!!!

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

Thank you so much for your help. In their response to me second request copy in my first post they have quoted Regulations3(2) and 7 (1) (b) of the Comer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 What do these mean it's all getting so Complex ???

They are hiding behind part of the Act which allows them to withold certain information such as signatures. But in circumstances like this we ask ourselves, "if a company has an enforceable agreement, why to they hide behind this part of the Act and not just provide a true copy?"

Don't worry, if they persist in trying to 'not' supply the information you request, there are several other ways we can get it from them.

Thanks a lot I will send them your letter and see what that brings but I think the amount they have agreed I pay for the next 6 months is so small and they are not charging interest either I will pay it as well. I just am a bit scared of court I'm 67 and I just helped my son out in a bad time and then was made redundant otherwise I would still be working full time. Now I am just getting my pension which is why I cant afford to pay. Thank you so much without the help of this site I wouldn't even have tried to get them to send an agreement. Thank you once again.

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Hello again this is the letter I have just received from Tescos. What now ??

Really need help !!!

Thanks:confused:

Send them this letter recorded delivery (print your name,don't sign it)............

Dear Sirs

Account number

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

Yours,

Print name do not sign

WOW!!!! So quick thank you so much will do today.

What would this old pensioner do without you

Well no response . My belief is that they have not got the Agreement. What now I have carried on paying the 5.79 a month that they requested after seeing my financial statement. I haven't checked my credit status but will do. They can't default me can they ? I am a bit scared of going to court can you help with my next move please. I am a pensioner and although I have my wits about me this is quite a worry.

Don't worry about court, they have to provide an enforceable agreement there even if they are playing silly beggars with you now & even then & they proved an enforceable CCA existed a judge would only order payment at a level you could reasonably afford to pay, which could be as little as £1 per month.

I think the reason they're acting as they are now is because not only are you paying them, but they don't have a valid CCA anyway. Send the letter below & if you still don't get a response it'll be time to start complaining to the OFT and the ICO;

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

To clarify S.61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

What I Require.

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

No other correspondence will be accepted

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

I trust this out lines the situation

Regards

Print name do not sign

Well no response as yet. Is the a template letter for OFT and Information Commisioners office ? Really appreciate your help .

Hello Again

At last a response.

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Plus a booklet Your complaint and the Ombudsman

What now still no original agreement

This shows the problems with trying to use s77/78 to get a copy of the signed agreement.

They are correct in what they say in that letter.

The reason that companies do this is not necessarily because they don't have the original agreement it's because they get so many of these requests that it's really expensive to dig out a copy of the original agreement and it's a lot cheaper and easier for them to provide you with a "true copy".

I would suggest that you send a sar to them specifically requesting to see the original agreement, or send them a s10 DPA notice and also have a read of this thread:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

To actually get a copy of the