hi there

my girlfriend shoplifted fro Boots a few days ago:mad: she has just told me now that she was caught by the security there, she admitted and signed the paper stating that she stole the goods to the value of £140. she's just been made redundant aswell and i am worried how much can they recover from her? would be grateful if anybody answers..

hi there

my girlfriend shoplifted fro Boots a few days ago:mad: she has just told me now that she was caught by the security there, she admitted and signed the paper stating that she stole the goods to the value of £140. she's just been made redundant aswell and i am worried how much can they recover from her? would be grateful if anybody answers..

not quite sure how it all works but if she was caught then I presume she returned the stuff ?

yes, the stuff was returned and the police officer was called which resulted in caution for her..

They will probably, no will send a loss recovery invoice or notice with some spurious costs on it. this is a civil matter and it is up to her if she wants to pay it or challenge it or got to court if they wish to persue it. as they will be acting on behalf of the store ie boots they will be acting as debt collectors, which they currently do not hold a licence and therfore cant persue legally. So up to you/girlfriend. costs anything between £80-£150 or thereabouts.

I think the amount of "damages and costs" asked for by rlp, will vary depending on the amount involved in the theft. I have recently seen a civil recovery summary for the region of the business I work for, and it seems to be on a sliding scale. It seems that, within "my" company, theft up to £10 is "worth" £70, over £10 but under £100 is worth £110, and over £100 attracts costs of £150. These figures are where the goods are recovered undamaged, if goods are not recovered intact, then the cost of the goods is added to these figures.

It seems strange to me that the police have issued a caution for this, although I know that accepting a caution is an admission of guilt. I have caught people stealing goods of much lower value, i.e. under £5, and this has resulted in a PND being issued, if the offence is admitted. This carries a penalty of £80, if paid within 21 days, and does not lead to a criminal record. Could it be that the store has no cctv evidence?

By the way, rlp will not be acting as debt collectors, they will be pursuing a claim for damages/costs, for which the court requires them to try to settle out of court first.

Depends whether this was a simple caution ( warning not to do it again ) or a conditonal caution, usually administered by a senior police officer, an inspector or above. The simple caution carries no criminal record. Was anything given to your GF by the Police? by way of record.

EYE you cant get a criminal record from a civil case! chasing these supposed fines is debt collecting!

Can I ask the age of your girlfriend, as cautions cannot be given to under 17's.

Depends whether this was a simple caution ( warning not to do it again ) or a conditonal caution, usually administered by a senior police officer, an inspector or above. The simple caution carries no criminal record. Was anything given to your GF by the Police? by way of record.

EYE you cant get a criminal record from a civil case! chasing these supposed fines is debt collecting!

Can I ask the age of your girlfriend, as cautions cannot be given to under 17's.

Never said you could get a criminal record from a civil case, but it is not debt collecting, there is no debt! They will be pursuing a claim for damages/costs in having to have cctv and security, because without thieves, they would not have to incur these costs. If their claim for costs is not met, they should proceed to court, but they have been known to pass it on to a DCA.

Apologies EYE misread.

What is it if it is not collecting a debt on behalf of the store, spurious though it may be. They are acting as an DCA in exactly the same way as parking companies do. Non- payment of notice becomes a debt, IMHO.

Anyway a lot of stuff on RLP in other threads, which believe they are not acting reasonably or legally.

Sorry again.

I always wonder what costs there were, the security staff were already there, as were the CCTV.

Correct this if I am wrong.

They can pursue you for civil recovery. The amount they claim is all you can dispute. They cannot use a DCA until there is an amount agreed to be collected which is only after a judge has decided you owe the money. Let them take you to court and go to arbitration as offered by the court. settle then if you feel the need to. Follow the advice in other threads on how to dispute this. As far as I am aware the license for RLP is still expired but you should check this. Ask to see a copy of their license in your correspondence.

I always wonder what costs there were, the security staff were already there, as were the CCTV.

So in theory, yes they are allowed to recover a portion of their costs, but where the argument fails is when it comes to amounts, and of course the fact that they apportion that blame randomly, whether the person did in fact do wrong or not. Furthermore, they use the presumed guilt of the person to levy high charges, playing on the fact that most people will pay rather than taking the chance they would end up with a criminal record if taken to court, unaware of the difference between criminal charges and civil recovery. In terrorem indeed.

Of course, just like with the banks, I suspect that anyone calling their bluff and saying: "ok, take me to court and show the judge what your costs really are and we'll let him decide" may well find action very quickly discontinued, if they ever took it as far as filing that is.

I agree with BW & remember there will be little sympathy in even a civil court for someone who has admitted theft

As they claim they are collecting a debt (no matter how it's described) on behalf of another they should have a CCL

the crux of the matter is that rlp are assuming you are guilty without hard solid proof. in my case the suspision was there but they,and the police had no hard evidence.rlp are not the ones to decide your guilt, this is why we have courts. fair enough if you have been caught bang to rights-you do the crime you do the time. my dispute is that i,and many others like me are being pursued for a crime we did not commit.and taht can not be allowed to happen!

Depends whether this was a simple caution ( warning not to do it again ) or a conditonal caution, usually administered by a senior police officer, an inspector or above. The simple caution carries no criminal record. Was anything given to your GF by the Police? by way of record.

EYE you cant get a criminal record from a civil case! chasing these supposed fines is debt collecting!

Can I ask the age of your girlfriend, as cautions cannot be given to under 17's.

She doesn't know if it was a simple caution or conditional caution as nobody gave her any documents. but she did have her foto and fingerprints taken at the station.

her age is 26 and she is still stupid to do things like shoplifting:x

Well, the argument is that if there were no dishonest people, there would be no need for security etc... and therefore, (cast your mind to liquidated damages) they are entitled to recover what your breach of contract (stealing instead of buying I think we all agree would be a fairly substantial breach, lol) cost them, and again basic contract law, it doesn't have to be an exact sum, an estimated amount is acceptable as long as reasonable. Anything above that would be deemed to be levied in terrorem and therefore would be a penalty. (I'm condensing contract law 101 here, you understand .)

 

So in theory, yes they are allowed to recover a portion of their costs, but where the argument fails is when it comes to amounts, and of course the fact that they apportion that blame randomly, whether the person did in fact do wrong or not. Furthermore, they use the presumed guilt of the person to levy high charges, playing on the fact that most people will pay rather than taking the chance they would end up with a criminal record if taken to court, unaware of the difference between criminal charges and civil recovery. In terrorem indeed.

 

Of course, just like with the banks, I suspect that anyone calling their bluff and saying: "ok, take me to court and show the judge what your costs really are and we'll let him decide" may well find action very quickly discontinued, if they ever took it as far as filing that is.

store security told her that they did have cctv prove but she didn't see it..

she was given a caution by the police ( i don't know if it resulted in criminal record , but she had her foto and fingerprints taken ), so do you thing this would effect if we decide to take them to court ?

She doesn't know if it was a simple caution or conditional caution as nobody gave her any documents. but she did have her foto and fingerprints taken at the station.

her age is 26 and she is still stupid to do things like shoplifting:evil:

so do you thing this would effect if we decide to take them to court ?

You won't take them to court you let them take you if they wish.

Sitting on the fence.

Obviously your GF did something wrong or she wouldn't have had to return the goods and the police wouldn't have been involved.Therefore the store is able to make a claim for civil recovery of it's loss. You will need to argue to what degree those costs are attributable to your GF. Your GF also admitted the theft and therefore in my opinion it is the amount not whether any amount could be claimed under civil recovery. RLP will inflate the amount and you should try to establish what is reasonable.

Others here will say that no criminal act has occured as she hasn't been arrested for it for example but I am not sure how the argument will go if the police were involved and action by them was taken.

It seems to me that they can claim what they like, you can ague what you think is right either settle at arbitration or let the Judge make a decision. I would think that RLP might be inclined to go to court if they believe the actions of the Police support their case.

I don't agree with RLP as a business practice at all. But I think where a crime was committed, cautioned or admitted to as a crime then I believe the threat of civil recovery is likely to be harder to fight in the way that many of the cases here, and being supported on here have come about through inadvertent acts, genuine mistakes or where it is only RLP's opinion a "Wrongful act" their words occured.

I would like to know opinion on this as well as I think there is a difference between your case and many others here.

I would think that most people caught stealing and not facing criminal prosecution would pay just to make the thing go away, however it depends on what would be a reasonable amount? Different case if people falsely accused or RLP acted unreasonably to resolve any misunderstandings.

It souds as though it was a simple caution; who administered the caution at the station? A conditional caution by definition has conditions attached and you would be advised in writing of what they were and that you agreed to them.

she says it was a police officer who took her to the station, then the same officer interviewed her. her foto and fingerprints were taken , and she was told she was cautioned. does this mean that she has a criminal record now? i can't understand what's going on as wasn't given any paper by the police. she was only given notice by the shop saying that they will take civil recovery actions..

she's so upset and i am so angry, we'll just wait how much they want and then if it is reasonable, will pay.. as she did do wrong

You won't take them to court you let them take you if they wish.

 

Sitting on the fence.

 

Obviously your GF did something wrong or she wouldn't have had to return the goods and the police wouldn't have been involved.Therefore the store is able to make a claim for civil recovery of it's loss. You will need to argue to what degree those costs are attributable to your GF. Your GF also admitted the theft and therefore in my opinion it is the amount not whether any amount could be claimed under civil recovery. RLP will inflate the amount and you should try to establish what is reasonable.

 

Others here will say that no criminal act has occured as she hasn't been arrested for it for example but I am not sure how the argument will go if the police were involved and action by them was taken.

 

It seems to me that they can claim what they like, you can ague what you think is right either settle at arbitration or let the Judge make a decision. I would think that RLP might be inclined to go to court if they believe the actions of the Police support their case.

 

I don't agree with RLP as a business practice at all. But I think where a crime was committed, cautioned or admitted to as a crime then I believe the threat of civil recovery is likely to be harder to fight in the way that many of the cases here, and being supported on here have come about through inadvertent acts, genuine mistakes or where it is only RLP's opinion a "Wrongful act" their words occured.

 

I would like to know opinion on this as well as I think there is a difference between your case and many others here.

She has been arrested.She has admitted guilt.

Difficult to work out what has happened here, if your GF has been photographed and fingerprinted, then she will, I presume, have a criminal record. Perhaps someone can educate me here. She must have been arrested, and questioned under caution,"you have the right to remain silent, etc", but has she been given a caution? You have to ask the question, why? It would be much easier for the police officer to just issue a PND on the spot. He fills in a form, you admit the offence and sign his notebook, then he gives you your copy and you are both on your way. If there are charges pending from an unrelated matter, or if a PND has previously been issued within a certain timescale, then a PND would not be possible. If the offence is not admitted, then a PND cannot be issued, and the person will be arrested and charged with theft, and will then get their day in court. BTW, a PND is the usual way of dealing with theft under £200, and carries a penalty of £80, if paid within 21 days.

I think you need to have a chat with your GF, now that the dust has settled, to see if she can remember any more detail of what happened. I expect she will have been shocked at the time, and some stuff will have been a blur. She can always contact the arresting officer and ask what happened and what the implications are. If they are proceeding any further, they will be able to tell her.

Regarding RLP, when and if you hear from them, I would try to make them an offer if your GF doesn't want to go to court. They would rather not go to court either, so maybe you can work something out. Some of the other threads here have shown a breakdown of the costs they ask for, so using that as a start point, try to get a reduction.

I feel that I should mention that I work in retail security, and sometimes send paperwork in to RLP, on behalf of my employers. However, having read these threads, I can see that this company are unscrupulous in their pursuit of money from people, whether they have committed a crime or not. They are only interested in their "cut", not in any right or wrong. My employers will only send paperwork in if we have concrete proof of theft.

Although she may have admitted guilt she was NOT arrested

A caution after the fact remains on your record for life whereas a penalty notice does not.

A pre arrest caution is entirely different, its' simply a declaration of you rights.

This was a simple caution administered by a constable and does NOT give you a criminal record, however it will remain on file,PNC etc. and can be used against you if you offend again.

A penalty notice does not even appear on record.