UB67 Many thanks for your reply, I will hang on to the letter going back 7 years,and submit it to them dependant on their next letter.

I still think as there is NO letter of Assignment, then NO response from me is required

thanks FS

Received a letter today from Shoosmiths,

stating that their client Arrow Global require us to submit details of our current circumstances

and they require us to fill in an income and expenditure form,which I will refuse to do.

Arrow have not submitted a Letter of Assignment neither has the owner of the debt submitted a Letter of Assignment.

I think this demand from Shoosmiths is getting very close to Harrisment ,any body have an opinion on this

FS

Write back asking for proof that their client owns this alleged debt.

Advise them that if they continue to write harassing you,

while not providing any information,

that you wil make a formal complaint to the SRA.

UB67 thanks for your reply, will do exactly as you suggest as I am getting really annoyed with Shoosmiths

regards FS

Further question if a house/flat has been repossessed and there is a mortgage shortfall does 12 years apply or does 6 years apply for Statute Barred?

thanks

FS

I have researched the above and it is very confusing.

If the amount outstanding is Interest Only then 6 years apply,

if Capital 12 years apply,

If the owner of the debt is a member of the Mortgage Organisation then Shortfalls 6 years apply.

As Shoosmiths are just making demands on behalf of Arrow and not supplying any information, which I have demanded they do.

My worry is this debt has been sold on at least 3 times and I have paid nothing and made no contact for about 8/9 years.

Still have the letter from AR UK their client Phoenix the debt owner wrote stating their client no longer wished to take any further action.

Any ideas

Thanks FS

trying to fleece you...

I appreciate Arrow via Shoosmiths are trying to fleece me,

I am trying to be prepared for any future demands from either company,

that is why I am trying to understand is this alleged debt Statute Barred,

because of the complicated 6year/12year rules.

Further these 2 companies state that the Mortgage was with the Mortgage Corporation ,who no longer exist,

the debt was sold on three times ending up with Phoenix,

who no longer exist,

so their statement in writing which states the debt is with Mortgage Corporation is not true

FS

If there is no CCJ for this debt which has been registered to any new debt owners,

then it is a case of looking back at the history of payment or acknowledgement.

If you have not paid anything or acknowledged the debt within a 6 year period,

then they could not enforce interest if you defended any court claim.

In regard to the actual capital mortgage outstanding,

there would have to be 12 years without payment or acknowledgement.

If the debt was not chased at all then the CML ( Council for mortgage lenders) practice of not enforcing a mortage debt not chased for 6 years would apply.

If it were me,

i would be writing to Shoosmiths advising that their client has clearly not advised them of the complicated history.

That in 2010 it was decided by x, that the matter would not be chased again, as a decision had been made not to pursue it.

I.e effectively a commercial decision to write it off.

It appears that the account has then been sold on without any paperwork confirming any of the history of the debt.

Also if their client has provided no evidence of ownership, why are they chasing something, for which they don't have sufficient information to deal with any correspondence properly.

UB67 many many thanks for your reply,

my research turned up similar information,

however I like the approach to Shoosmiths you have indicated and will proceed along these lines.

I think Arrow/Shoosmiths are just chancers,

but they have a nasty track record as indicated on this site,

so obviously I am a little concerned.

thanks again

FS

I have prepared a draft to send to Shoosmiths,

before I do I have a question regarding CMA.

when the debt was sold to Phoenix and now Arrow Global ,

does all of the original agreements with the original owner of the debt

ie; the Mortgage company apply to the new owners in this case,

as the Mortgage Company was a member of the CMA

and agreed that Shortfalls would not be chased down after 6 years as also indicated by UB67???

FS

if that agreement is in writing then yes. The debt and its conditions and liabilities all go to the new creditor so if you are owed PPI then they have to pay it, not the mortgage co that sold you it.

sorry not quite correct

its who got paid the PPI lump sum at the start or the portion of your monthly payment that went toward the PPI

could even be insurance underwriters.

but def NOT the DCA.

no stupid letters FS

ignore them.

dx

Thanks for your replies,I am holding my draft until Shoosmiths come up with an Assignment Letter if at all

FS

Nothing much has happened,

apart from a letter 6 weeks ago from Arrow stating that they where sorry for my complaint and they would investigate (my complaint NO letter of Assignment) their complaints procedure could take up to 8 weeks.

1 week ago had the same letter from Shoosmiths same apology same 8 weeks.

Who gave these leaches the OK that 8 weeks was acceptable to produce a single document?

In reverse if I was asked for a reply or supply a document from either of these companies, and did not bother, after 1 week the threat of Legal Action would start.

Sorry having getting P......Off moment

Happy Christmas to All

FS

Update Shoosmiths have sent a letter of update confirming that they are still investigating my complaint

ie; No letter of Assignment and will provide me with a Final Response in due course.

There really ought to be a limit on just how long these companies can take to answer what in this case is a simple copy of a Letter of Assignment, to keep people dangling, which can cause distress, is unacceptable.

FS

Shoosmiths have now produced a letter of Assignment from Arrow Global who they represent,

which without doubt has been produced in the last few days,

,it is not a copy

it looks like an original with the same signature from both companies,

there is still no letter of Assignment from Phoenix Recoveries stating they have sold the debt to Arrow

do they have to supply this ??

Or do I have to believe Arrows word that they have purchased the alleged debt??

The letter I have from Phoenix stating they will no longer pursue the debt is dated April 2010,

however Shoosmiths state the last payment was October 2010

why would I make payments for 7 months after being told that they where no longer pursuing the debt,

somebody is telling Porkies

FS

phoenix are part of the arrows group.

This was Phoenix Recoveries (UK) s a r l who when Googled where dissolved

Do you require a Letter of Assignment from BOTH parties?????

Arrow/Shoosmith are telling lies stating I paid money up until OCT 2010 when in fact I stopped payments to Phoenix in 2009

FS

No to the assignment question.

All I would do in this situation is point out that you were told that this alleged debt would not be pursued in 2010 and the 2010 payment is nothing to do with you.

That the decision made in 2010 is still binding on the current owner of this alleged debt and would be brought to the attention of a court, if a court was ever asked to review the matter.

That should be the end of the matter.

UB67 thanks for your reply, most helpful

Regards FS

as I said before

you start stupid letter tennis again

you'll never be rid of them.

dx

From what I seen of cases involving Shoosmiths, is that they are very much led by their clients instructions.

If you send them a letter, it will get referred back to their client creditors and it will take ages, if a reply is ever received.

In one case, once a letter was sent to Shoosmiths in a similar situation to this thread, Shoosmiths never bothered writing again.

Point taken guys,have sent a letter with a copy letter which states Phoenix will no longer Pursue the debt,sent recorded,lets hope it works

FS

:frusty:

more pointless letter tennis

and why do it recorded?

what a waste of money!!