In August 2008 I joined the Next Generation gym but shortly afterwards I found out that I would have to move out of the area due to work. I phoned the gym to ask what I should do as obviously I couldn't use the gym and couldn't get a proper answer. I then rang again and was told to write to them stating I was leaving the area. I did this and received no response. I then received a letter stating that David Lloyd Leisure had taken over Next Generation and that my subscription was going to go up. As I had still had no contact from after my letter I rang the gym again only to be told that their head office dealt with subscription issues and I would probably hear something in due course.

I then started receiving letters from a company called ARC demanding £572 on behalf of David Lloyd Leisure. When I rang them back I explained the situation and that I had been trying to sort this out for months but nobody had got back to me but the guy on the phone wasn't interested and kept asking how I proposed to pay off this sum of money. When I told him I had no intention of paying it there and then he said they would take me to court. I then told him that was fine and that I would defend myself in court.

Just now I received a phone call from a very rude man who didn't identify himself or his company, but the number was 08452 707365, and he started asking for payment or an out of court settlement of £517. When I told him I had no intention of paying any money over the phone he said they would prepare a court case to be heard in Northampton and that "it's up to you to get there or you'll get a judgement against you anyway so you may as well pay now".

I then told him I intended to take legal advice and that any further contact should be via mail only. He then said he had a legal obligation to ring me regularly until this debt was settled. I then informed him that if I received anymore calls I would look into a case for harassment. He continued to say they would continue calling and I hung up.

Did I do the right thing? I must confess I lost my temper. Any tips on my next move please guys?

I know I am being bullied by this company but they've picked on the wrong person.

OK First of all this is standard operational bull***t from ARC - I had exactly the same trouble when I tried to cancel my Esporta Gym Membership for the same reason.

1 Next time ARC telephone ask the person calling for his/her full name and note it down.(get the address of arc if you have not already got it)

2 Then tell them that you have been instructed by your legal advisor NOT to discuss the matter over the telephone, but would like them to communicate with you in writing.

3 Hang up.

4 Write a letter to ARC (copy to the gym) saying that due to circumstances beyond your control (ie a company relocation) you were unable to continue with your gym membership and you had informed them of this on several occasions (include dates) Tell them that as the OFT has indicated in its document on gym membership that a single months membership would be considered fair notice under such circumstances,(I assume you gave 1 month) that you would be prepared to argue this in court, and would welcome the opportunity to do so.

Any other communication from either ARC, or David Lloyd other than notice of proceedings would be considered as harassment (which is in breach of the protection from harassment act 1997) and action would be considered against both DL and ARC on this issue.

Take a look at my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/168393-esporta-information.html for my story.

Thanks for that mate. Much appreciated.

I actually didn't give any notice because they didn't respond to my questions about what I needed to do to cancel my membership.

I would also from now on RECORD the calls they make to you.....I would send a letter outlining the dispute to the Chairman of the company at their head office, explain the attitude the debt collection agency have taken (they are responsible for the actions of their suppliers too) state that if this kind of harrassment continues you will have no hesitation in taking legal action...

I had a similar problem with D Lloyd, if you do not settle they will probably commence legal proceedings. In case you need it, here is my defence.

I've just received two letters from ARC, both dated yesterday.

It starts with:

"Dear Mr ****

We refer to your recent offer to pay and confirm we are willing to accept £550.00 to short settle this debt..."

This must be some kind of joke? I haven't made any offers!

I have also had two phone calls from them this morning that I have logged, despite me telling them yesterday that I would only deal with them in writing.

Tossers!

I have just had this same problem with my sisters next gen membership. The contract was a pile of poo and I told them to get knotted on this basis. Feel free to pm me if you need anything, but get a copy of your contract sharpish chances are the same error applies.

Forgot to say I lodged a complaint with trading standards, these must be mounting up now so add yours to the collection please!!

I joined my local DL club in Chorley in March and within a week i noticed that the changing rooms were often filthy, but put it down to a one off. After another couple of visits i thought i must bring this up with a Manager. He was sympathetic and said he would address it. The very next day i thought i would give it a go and to my amazement it was just as bad. I complained again to be told i must put it in writing and send it to the General Manager. I went one better and presented the General Manger with my letter of disgust also saying if it isnt sorted i will be cancelling. He informed me the cleaners are contractors and they have staffing problems, I told him i dont care and that i'm not happy. He wasn't intrested and told me to escalate it to Sally Hillman (Regional Manager) so i did. Explaining the treatment and service i have recieved was disgusting and that i will not be continuing my membership, she didn't even respond. Next thing ARC wrote to me demanding i pay the full year's membership and i would be charged a further £50 for each direct debit i missed. I forwarded all my letters of complaint to them and explained i will not be paying.

I recieved a letter this morning from their solicitor Trevor Munn, he has demanded i pay or i will be issued with a C,C summons in Northhampton, furthermore i will be charged intrest and will incure all court cost's.

For those of you who are in the same postion, i have had advice from a reliable source saying, write to them stating that, contract or no contract, it's down to the judge on the day and if you have acted resonably and they have not, you will win. Also if you get a summons you can request the case to be heard in your home town (Fact)

So dont be bullied, stand and fight.

Hi,

Interesting to hear of your treatment by David Lloyd Chorley.

My partner and I have been members there for three and a half years but when we recently tried to leave we received calls from ARC debt recovery.

We explained that we had given notice and left but they insisted that we owe £281 each as no notice had been given! We had given it in person to the girl on reception but David Lloyd's poorly trained (and constantly changing) staff at this branch had lost it, AND failed to issue a receipt.

I have written to the general manager a Mr. McNicholas who has written back saying that he refuses to speak further on the matter!

Not only this, but it has come to light that we were mis-sold the original contracts back in Feb 2006, having been given separate contracts despite joining together as a couple!

The single contract [problem] has cost us several hundred pounds more than a joint membership would over this period, and now we are being pursued for two lots of £281 for 'failure to give notice".

McNicholas refuses to look into this, stating that there is 'No proof' that we asked for a joint membership at the time!! I mean, why wouldn't a couple, attending together at the same time not require joint membership?...it stinks!

Meanwhile ARC continue to hound us despite letters asking them to communicate in writing only. I am thinking of picketing the gym and leafleting the members to make them aware of the unjust way that this branch is being run.

I would write to the Managing Director of the business, state that Mr McNicholas is refusing to investigate this, and under probability why would you take out single (more expensive) membership as opposed to a more cost effective couple membership. I can't understand why once you leave these companies they seem to throw out the toys....it should be seen as an opportunity to try and get you to rejoin in the future ?

The problem is that I have written to David Lloyd's head office once regarding this matter and they simply passed it straight back to Paul McNichols to deal with!

I suspect that he and Sally Hillman are friends, or at least familiar, and therefore no action is taken, as is confirmed by the chap who has written above.

One David Lloyd employee responsible for collections actually told me that the only way they would not continue to harass me for money was...and I quote "If you were dead!"

I took her name and reported her but again I got nothing but a 'reassurance' that she had been spoken to.

On another occasion while explaining by telephone to Angela Hill who is the recruiting officer at the Chorley branch that we would neither pay, nor could afford three more months charges she said;

"I am a single mother, if I got in trouble with my mortgage no one would help me, so why do you think David Lloyd should help you?"

It appears to be lost on these people that we don't actually owe them anything!

What a shame you couldn't have recorded the calls !! Mike Tye is the Managing Director of the Leisure Club Division....I would write to him explaining exactly what they said to you on the phone !!

Thanks for the name + info, I will write. Do you happen to have where he can be contacted or do I address the letter to him via the David Lloyd head office?

I also wish I had their remarks recorded, I do have the letter from McNichols though in which he assures me that both of them have been reprimanded, however he states that "because of confidentiality and data protection I cannot reveal what steps were taken"

Pity he didn't take such good care when issuing my data incorrectly to ARC collections!

Old-Nail, Sorry to hear of your plight, but sadly it comes as no suprise. Just to give you all an update on where i'm upto-After the barrage of calls, letters from ARC and letters from Trevor Munn Solicitors, It seemed to go quiet for a few weeks. Then came a call from a mobile number, it was ARC "oh, a change in tactics" I said. The caller quickly said" are you going to pay" "No" I said, "Then we will take you to court and you will incure further charges" "Good" I said. I went on to explain, ARC are only acting on behalf of there client who has not followed correct procedure and with further cost's being added you are only making my case stronger, as it will be seen as unfair, The call quickly ended.

Then out of the blue i recieve a letter from a company called ScotCall Debt Collecting Services explaining that they would send doorstep collectors round. This seemed a little more serious. I checked there website out and the way they come across i was right to be alarmed. I took a little advice and emailed them straight away. I wrote-

In reference to the debt you have been allocated, may i point out this

debt is in DISPUTE and therefore i will not deal with your company or

representatives on the phone or the doorstep and any door step calls will

be deemed as an act of aggression and or intimidation and will be dealt

with accordingly.

I have asked on every accation i have been contacted by ARC that this be

settled in court, to no avail. The client you are acting on behalf,may it

be David Lloyd, ARC or Trevor Munn Solicitors are acting in a

unprofessional, unfair and unlawful manner and this will be deemed so by

the courts. So i urge you not to go down this route because it would be a

waste of your company's time and money.

This email will be recorded and produced as evidence along with all

previous corrispondace relating to this matter.

And to my suprise they responded saying, thanks for my email and it will be passed back to there client. WOW! at least one company can act in a professional manner.

Old-Nail, dont give in and in regards to the picket, let me know when and i would be glad to join you. All the best.

Old-Nail, dont give in and in regards to the picket, let me know when and i would be glad to join you. All the best.

Great stuff. I will be writing to Mike Tye first as advised above.

Ironically, the day after posting my last post on here I did receive a reply from Paul McNichols, a very short one that simply stated that I had 'exhausted' the grievance procedure at club level.

He then gives me Sally Hillman's details and adds that;

"The regional director is the final level of our company escalation process and will confirm the company's position"

This final comment appears to pre-judge Sally Hillmans decision somewhat don't you think? He's hardly expecting an impartial investigation then, which is why I'll be writing to Mike Tye!

I shall have some leaflets made up should I get no satisfaction and fully intent to picket and leaflet members at the nearest convenient public place outside the gym, which is the entrance to the approach road. All are welcome!

If I can get enough volunteer support for the picketing days I will ring the newspapers to attend as well, publicity is death to little tyrants like McNichols.

I would be suprised if Sally Hillman even knew who you were. Best of luck with the letter to Mr Tye, but i would'nt hold my breath. The thing is i work in the sale's and service sector and if i acted in this manner i would be fast out of business. It seems this kind of behavior inherent throughout the company and the only way to deal with it is to bring it to the public domain and hit them where it hurts, in the pocket. Marketing will cost them around £500.000 a year, so adverse marketing will cost them the same plus 25% approx, So bring on the publicity and expose them for what they are, a money making machine that does'nt give a stuff about there customer base.

My thoughts exactly.

When reading through this excellent website I was amazed at how many others had suffered a similar fate at the hands of the fitness industry and ARC collections. Why hasn't a concerted effort against them been organised before now I wonder?

I've had three letters from Trevor Munn so far, each one huffing and puffing a little harder than the last. I 'Googled' him, obtained his actual address and not the 'via ARC' one that his letters give, and sent the reply there!

I'm also wondering if writing to a national newspaper, or my local MP might do any good? My experience so far isn't promising, I have already written to the BBC, who recently asked for relevant stories to be sent in for an

upcoming new series called 'Rip off Britain", I received no reply.

The main obstacle as I see it, is that many of the big directorships are, to coin a phrase, "All Pi**ing in the same pot" and therefore don't like to upset each other by investigating malpractice.

This is why I would like to picket and leaflet gym members personally to raise awareness of the treatment they can also expect should they decide to leave.

Finally, with regard Trevor Munn/ARC I believe that unless ARC actually take me to court and win, then they cannot place me on a credit blacklist as I have not defaulted on a credit agreement. They can pursue me only under contractual law which has nothing to do with credit.

Update on this.

Despite my receiving a begrudging note containing the details of Sally Hillman from Paul McNicholas for my appeal, I received a phone call yet again from ARC demanding money.

I told them of the situation, and the fact that any appeal I had made has not yet been heard or answered and was told that Angela Hill the membership manager has emailed the details through this morning for pursuance.

Does this mean the appeals process that I requested as part of the company grievance procedure has been breached?

I have now written to ARC giving full details of the situation between myself and David lloyd, they were left in no doubt that this so called 'debt' is disputed, and that I require written contact only from them.

Their written reply was that their client has confirmed once again that the 'debt' must be recovered, and as such they will continue to use all methods necessary to recover the debt.

I have now used and modified the OFT letter template from this site, I have made a claim of harassment, and have included copies of my correspondence with ARC, and the log of names, dates, and times of the phone calls.

Let's see what becomes of this then....

If I win this case I intend to make a donation to this site out of the money saved, some very helpful info on here, and thanks for your support!

i hate david lloyd they suck. Theyve done the same thing to me, wouldnt let me cancel my membership, let me join when i was a student and shouldnt have been allowed to join.i didnt have any money so asked to cancel my membership they wouldnt let me so i asked to suspend my membership but they wouldnt let me do that either, saying i think 30 or 60 days notice, and they may or may not let me suspend it. i told them that i dont have the money to pay for it, but they wernt having it. Now they (arc)keep calling asking for 837 quid :S. Im a student and already in enough debt im not going to pay for something that im not using.`

I was pursued twice by David Lloyd debt collectors over 10 years of membership. First time David Lloyd had to pay me £500 compensation and second time £2000! Their administration is clearly a mess, the debt collection companies must know that and I believe have a duty of care to ensure they establish whether their client has cocked up again before pursuing wrongful claims.

I have now left them as they are more like a factory than a club and have also written to the OFT about their consumer practices and the issue of the duty of care owed by their debt collectors. I would encourage anyone else with complaints against them also to contact the Office of Fair Trading and your local trading standards office and to consider suing both them and the debt collection company through the small claims court as I did.

Hi, This is very interesting.

Having the exact same problems with David Lloyd, Arc Europe and Munn Solicitors. I paid 12 months cash upfront (no direct debit) for what I was lead to believe was a 12 month fixed term. Then after 12 months they try to bill me for 3 months notice! An Outrageous underhand practice!

The Office of Fair Trading states that “rolling terms” are unfair and they have told David Lloyd before they need to reduce their notice period too. Most UK gyms are 1 month which they deem reasonable.

Can anyone whome has been through Closure on the David Lloyd Chapter please clarify a number of points;

1. If you dont pay to Munn actually file a Court claim and try and enforce the 3 month notice contract?

2. How did the comenter in the above actually get a payment form DL? Was it for harrasement? what is the best process for this?

I have already written to Watchdog, Time Troubleshooter & OFT. Any others?

Thanks

In answer to the above questions I can confirm that;

1/ The Trevor Munn letters are simply a bluff by ARC to frighten you into paying. Looking back, I now see that they are simply an amateurish and feeble attempt to intimidate. I ignored them all with no ill effect.

2/ ARC will 'play' you right to the wire, using telephone harassment, threatening letters, and repudiating any claim you might make that you are not liable for the so called debt. They only stopped when they saw that I had contacted the OFT regarding their methods, having first methodically logged all their calls, and sent appropriate letters (by registered post) requiring them to submit all further contact in writing only.

Don't waste any time (or your breath) trying to reason with them, they're just not interested. Keep a copy of all your letters to them, and force them to write (not call) to you, as telephone harassment will be denied by them. Remember to log all telephone calls, note the time, date, and ask the name of the caller - then hang up. Don't feel ignorant, they are!

Send all your letters by registered post or ARC will also deny ever having received them. Keep your post office receipts too which are used as proof of letter delivery.

The best way to quieten them is to write to them, and allocate a named person to handle any future claims from ARC/ David Lloyd on your behalf. (Much as you would a solicitor, and any name real or otherwise will do) I made a nice name up, and then used c/o my own address.

That 'person' will then be the third party responsible for handling all future claims against you, which must be in the form of written correspondence. This means that you personally are not dealing with the claim, which in turn means any subsequent phone calls to you personally are contrary to the OFT guidelines.

Having delegated the matter to your selected person, and notified them of his or her name, and a valid postal address (Only! - No phone numbers!) for them to contact him/her strictly in writing only, then they are no longer allowed to contact the original person directly, either by telephone or by letter. If they do not comply with this you then have grounds for a harassment claim and can inform the OFT.

By using this method all further correspondence is done through a possibly very lazy third party that doesn't even bother to call round much to open his mail, let alone reply to it, and of course it's nothing to do with you.

ARC love making nuisance telephone calls, but hate writing letters. Especially when those letters cost them more to write and send than the phone calls do, and often go straight into the bin. There are laws, and OFT guidelines which must be followed by any debt collection agency, be aware of them, and of your rights, and use them to protect yourself.

My tactic is to just ignore their calls into eternity, it doesn't bother to delete a voicemail once or twice a week. Having read up on the subject, I have no intention to ever speak to them.

They may have sent letters, but to my old address so I haven't seen them. This is also due to a David Lloyd cancellation (the one in Kensington, London) because I moved house.

Ignoring a good tactic?