Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1

    Exclamation Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    Hi Guys,

    Please can I possibly have some advice from a Mod or legal person regarding my next step on the following.

    To explain in as much detail the circumstances that I find myself in,


    I have well and truly had it with RBSicon.
    They have constantly hounded me,
    made the last 2 years of my life a pure hell,
    and I do wish to God (any God) that I had never walked through their doors
    all those years ago with a smile on my face, looking to open a current bank account.

    In Jan 1998 my wife opened a current account with RBS, this had an overdraft facility.

    In Sep 2003 we opened a joint account with them.

    In April 2005 we took out a home improvement loan with them

    Due to unforseen circumstances,
    Nov 2006 our income decreased unexpectedly, we fell behind on some payments, bit the bullet and asked for help.

    We contacted all of our creditors straight away via CCCS who helped arrange letters,
    SOA's and as one of the agreements we offered to pay RBS a reduced amount per month from Jan 2007.

    Intially they wanted more but agreed, in the end.

    This was had in writing from RBS on the basis that it may be reviewed at a 6 month period.

    I state now we have never disputed our liabilities to RBS except charges levied against our accounts,
    and we have dutifully without fail, paid the agreed amount to them on time via standing order.

    RBS subsequently closed our accounts without warning and demanded all overdrafts, loans etc to be repaid.
    This not only compounded our issues but for the next couple of months made life a bit harder.
    We got accounts elsewhere and maintained our payments all creditors owed.

    In April 07 we requested charges to be refunded against one the accounts,
    this was initally challenged but in May 07 they capitulated and agree to lodge the amount against my wife's current account.

    We got a phone callicon in Nov 07,
    asking whether we were in a position to pay the outstanding £24K (all account overdrafts, loans etc)

    We told them no, based on our current levels of income we could still only afford the current amount currently paid to them,
    and that we were prepared to review this again in the New Year.

    The next time we heard from RBS was through Shoosmiths, in Dec 07 via Northampton county courticon,
    applying to take court action to recover the outstanding full amount.
    During this time we have continued to make payments to them.

    With help from Consumer Action Group,
    I read the forums and drafted a defence based on the fact that I was not given an opportunity to address the payments,
    and that I had always been open to discussion with RBS,
    but apart from the one phone call demanding full payment there had been no arrangements made
    and I had continued to pay RBS what I could have afforded.

    Defence was filed online.
    I then wrote to Shoosmiths Dec07 requesting information under CPR rules, so that I can file a good defence,
    but this was rejected by Shoosmiths, telling me that I was not entitiled to this information at this stage.

    Acknowledgement of defence Jan 08 from the court.

    My allocation questionaire was submitted in Feb 08.

    Transfer of proceeding to local court Feb 08,

    Feb 08 second letter to Shoosmiths requesting information under CPR rules, Allocation questionaire received from Shoosmiths.
    They wrote back stating that I had already requested this and at the appropiate stage they would respond in writing, enclosing a copy of my previous request.

    I received another letter from Shoosmiths, and court telling me that Claim was to be allocated to Multitrack,
    list of disclosure by 4th April 08, witness statements by 12th May 08, Pre trial by June 2008.
    Trial to be listed within a three week window commencing July 08.

    March 08 transfer of proceeding to another Court, one further away this time, for trial.

    March 08 letter from Shoosmiths, a draft Tomlin order, and charging order on our property,
    on the basis that we paid £6 extra per month, on agreement, court proceedings would be dropped.
    If not accepted they would make an application for our defence to be struck out and they would seek furhter costs of 6K from us.

    We rejected this on the basis that we had not had a CCJ lodged against us,
    and that this would make what was an unsecured loan secured against our property.
    Our home is all that we have, plus having a small family,
    we did not want to entertain any risk to our children at any cost.

    It went on to state, should we fail to make one payment,
    the claimant would be entitled to lift the stay of proceedings and enter judgement.

    It also stated that the claimant be at liberty to apply for a charging order to which we would not be able to object.
    Once a charging order was obtained, they would not enforce the sale whilst we made payments .

    Now it starts to get interesting,

    March 08 we get the notice of Allocation to Multi-track, documents to be served by April 08, and by 15th April Mutal Disclosure by both parties.

    Shoosmiths also sent us copy of loan agreement, statements that were incomplete,
    as they did not show any subsequent payments made since the account had been closed,
    no refund of the £475.00 they had already admitted to in writing in regards to charges,
    two screen prints stating customer not able to increase payments.
    Customer is a home owner, customer offers an amount that will take X years to clear debt.

    June 08, letter from the court General Form of Judgement or Order, stating that unless Claimant files by 24th June,
    the application for summary Judgement, with supporting evidence or Pre-Trail checklist the claim will be struck out.

    30th June 08

    It was ordered that we attend court 14th July to fix a listing hearing.

    Reasons
    To consider the Claimants implied application to give further time for disclosure and exchange witness statements
    and to vary trial timetable.

    To ascertain the reasons for failure to comply with the order of 10th March 08 and to consider sanctions accordingly.

    8th July we received from Shoosmiths a copy of Allocation Notice and witness statements,
    and a draft order requesting a further extension to Aug 08.
    An application to move the trial window to Oct 08.

    We attended this and took all relevant documents with us hoping to get the case struck out on the basis that
    1) we were still willing to come to some sort of arrangement with RBS and
    2) to get the case struck out because we still had not recieved all documentation in which to file or indeed mount a suitable defence.

    The judge to be fair gave the solicitor a hard time in so much as he wanted to know why they had not filed relevant documents in time, but told us that without a good enough reason, ie defence, that it could not be struck as as there was no current agreement with RBS to continue making payments of the amount that we had been paying.

    17th July, a letter from the courts, stating trial timetable to be suspended pending the hearing of the Claimants application for Summary Judgement. This is to take place 29th July 08.

    Can someone tell me what happens next?
    - Do we still get a charging order or do the courts decide in favour of RBS and what would be the likely outcome?
    What will the Summary Judgement mean? and by it's implication do I have any legal recourse to challenge in any way this action?

    Hopefully somebody can help or at least answer these qusetions.

    I don't feel that I can give in so easily to RBS, and intend to fight them in any way that I can, after all I still do not dispute that we owe them, all I say is that we come to an amicable agreement, pay them off and move on.

    Many thanks for reading !!



    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    Hi,

    Please find document requested.


    http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/scan0002.jpg


    Any feedback would be most welcome.

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    Hi Guys,

    Today we received a lettericon from Shoosmiths, regarding a hearing at the court on the 29th July 12.00pm, for the Claimant's application for Summary Judgement, and strike out of our defence.
    They have also enclose their costs which at the moment are a staggering £2021.00 !!

    Is there anything that I need to do on this ?

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    It seems Shoos are up to their old tricks. Being late at providing docs and then going for summary judgment to avoid a trial. No doubt they have rushed this in to try and get fill in judge because of the holiday.

    They can only get judgement if there is no case to answer. Here you could say you have put in a defence and had expecting disclosure. Shoos had accepted that on 14 July but for Court to write to you on 17 July Shoos must have applied by the time of the hearing on 14 July.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    As I understand this, they are going for a strike out, because they are saying on 1) There is no agreement in place currently and 2) the length of time it would take to pay the loan back at the current rate.
    Where do I stand on this issue? What are the outcomes of this ?

    Many thanks

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    Hi there

    Ive just looked at the agreement you posted, is it signed by you anywhere or at all?

    if it is and it has your name and address on it then you may have problems with this document

    it all hinges on if it is signed as set out above


  7. #7

    Default Re: Us vs RBS Court Date / Defence Part 2

    Hi, Yes unfortunately it does have name and address on it. I take it we are up the creek etc, etc.

    What will happen next? Once the Judge finds in their favour, do we have a CCJ lodged against us? Will we have a charge put against our home?
    What about the payments made - can they make us pay more?

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  8. #8

    Unhappy Interim charging Orders

    Hi All,

    Can somebody please clarify whether a creditor is able to apply successfully for a charging order, ehen there has been no county courticon judgement issued?

    As far as I am aware because one has not been issued and creditor currently has an application for an Interim Charging order made against me. This has not gone to final Charging order, but I have been still making payments to creditor, even before court hearing , in fact I have never stopped making payments to them monthly.

    I was under the understanding that if a CCJ had been issued and I had broken that agreement then creditor could apply for Charging order.

    Are there any ways of stopping this order or is it a formality?
    Creditor is not prepared to accept my reduced installments and wants repayment of £24K in 5 years, but I am unable to comply with this offering
    to pay over a longer timeframe.

    The property is in joint names and there are dependants invloved .

    Any responses greatly appreciated.

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    An interim charging order is entirely dependent upon [1] the Claimant showing in his application for the CO, the existence of a regular court judgment for the payment of money which has not been satisfied, [2] the court accepting that evidence and [3] the existence of an interest in property beneficially belonging to the debtor and to which the charge may attach.

    Anything short of these minimal requirements will not be enough.

    Does something or other give you the impression a CO has already been obtained against you and if so, what precisely has lead to you gaining that impression?

    x20


  10. #10

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    Hi,

    The fact that the claimant, is pressing for the Interim charging order, without a default against a county courticon judgement, and also the fact that only a judgement granted in favour of the claimant, which was disputed, but not successfully a couple of months ago. No schedule was made for an offer to pay over installments, simply an award to the claimant.

    To give you an accurate picture of events, I will try my best to explain:-

    Original loan was taken out in 2006, overdraft and joint account totalled 24K.
    Bank closed account and demanded repayment.
    Arrangement to pay on installments agreed to be review after 6 months.
    Review was done Dec 2007, where a request to pay 4 times the original amount was requested. I was not in a position to meet this but since the inception of the orginally agreement had made payments without any arrears.

    Bank refused to accept amount that I was paying, and Shoosmiths became involved demanding full payment of amount within 21 days.

    (Since then, successful application to get charges back. We wanted a cheque, they refused and want to put this towards account.
    To date they have not done this)


    Shoosmiths via Northampton bulk centreicon issued court proceedings and a money judgement against me.

    I think on the basis that there was no current installment agreement in place, and that we were in breach because of this.
    We entered a defence based on the fact that we had still been paying them, and had not missed any payments, we were not given the option of a review, by bank on what we could afford, even though a statement of affairs was issued to them, showing that they had the lions share of the amount available to creditors.
    The claim was that it would take 46 years to pay back the money and that the bank was not prepared to let the matter go beyond 5 years.

    We requested under Civil Procedure Rules all correspondence etc, this was rejected by Shoosmiths until they recieved our defence.

    Shoosmiths went ahead with the claim in January 08.
    A second request under CPR was made and again rejected by Shoosmiths.

    Allocation questionaires were filed and suggested directions were to be by April 08, with confirmation that disclosure would be provided at the appropiate stage in the proceedings.

    Transfer of proceedings followed to another court, not our local one.
    Notice of Allocation to Multiitrack came in March.
    Pre listing Questionaire was to be in by June 08.

    Got a letter from Shoosmiths March advising that RBSicon were prepared not to seek judgement against me on the basis that I maintain payments £6 more than I was currently paying, and that I agree to a charging order over my property.
    Enclosed was a Tomlin order, and if I did not accept this then RBS would make an application to strike my defence out, and seek further costs.
    The Tomlin order was rejected as I did not wish to make what was an unsecured loan, secured against my property, as I have dependants of young age.

    In June 08, a General Form of Judgement or Order was issued by Court, stating that unless Claimant files by 24th June either Pre Trail Checklist or an application for summary judgement the claim would be struck out.

    Another General Form of Judgement or Order arrived end of June from the courts, to fix listings hearing, to consider claimants implied application to give further time for disclosure, and exchange witness statements and to vary the trial window.
    To also ascertain the reasons for the failure to comply with the order of 10th March and to consider santions.

    I attending this hearing and the District Judge basically said that without an agreement in place with the bank our defence was to be struck out. This on the face of it was fair enough, though I have been paying the bank, it was not the amount that they wanted and I believe that Summary Judgement has been awarded against me.
    This was in accordance with CPR Part 24.

    In July 08, I recieved a General Form of Judgement or Order (N24), stating that the trail timetable be suspended pending hearing of the Claimants application for summary judgement.

    This was heard on 17th July I was unable to attend as I was out of the country.
    I got a letter from Shoosmiths though, informing me of the £2K worth of fees added to the amount outstanding.

    Last thing recieved Sep 08, and Interim Charging Order, stating District Judge considered the application of the claimant from which it appears
    1) a judgement or order given on 29th July ordered defendant to pay money to the judgement creditor.
    2) the amount owing under judgement including interest and costs
    3) the judgement debtor is owner of the assets ( my house)

    1) The court orders that the interest of the judgement debtor stand charged with payment of 24K together with any further interest becoming due and the costs of the application.
    2) the application to be heard in Oct 08, when a judge will decide whether the charge created by the order should continue (with or without modification) or should be discharged.

    A letter from Shoosmiths has confirmed the same enclosing application for charging order.
    It states judgement debt amount but says that the judgement did not provide for paying by instalments.

    Another letter from Shoosmiths (16th) offering me a one off opportunity to accept repayment by instalments over a reasonable period, in return may be prepared to cease further court proceedings.
    Upon contacting them to arrange this, they said that they wanted effectively now to have the amount paid off within 5 years - like before and that instalments were still more than I could afford to pay. As ever costs had been added and I had now been charged interest for the last month adding another £158 per month to the total.
    When I questioned this, I was told that they could still apply interest, and would continue to do so until matter was heard by the courts. (Again can they really do this?)

    Sorry that it is long winded - but I wanted to get as much infomation out so that someone can advise me on this. I have not tried to get away with it, and have paid them without fail. It is just what I can afford, and am prepared to review the situation regularly.
    But I cannot put my home under duress whilst my children are there, and though people have said that it is rare that the Banks don't enforce Charging orders, in this case there has not really been a need to go down this route, as even if charging order was granted I would only still be able to pay the same amount anyway.

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    Hi Guys, for an update, I contacted courts this morning to seek details of Judgement back in July.
    It appears that I have been issued a CCJ and letter was sent from court late Aug 08.
    This has never been received so they are send another out today

    So thats that then. Unless I can have the judgement set aside - I reckon I am screwed, and any attempt by me to resist the charging order will be met by further costs incurred.
    I did asked why there was not an opportunity to pay by installements, but court have said that the creditor does not have to offer this facility, and that it is up to the descetion of the courts as to whether this would be granted. But then if charge is made final, an installment plan would need to be in operation for it to be effectual yes or no?

    Really don't know what to do now - if there are any avenues that I can pursue please let me know.

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    It would seem that judgment under CPR 24 was entered against you for the payment of £24,000.00. The judgment was made without provision for the judgment to be paid by instalments. Accordingly and in the absence of anything to the contrary, the judgment was for payment of this sum within 14 days of its pronouncement.

    The judgment debt has not been paid and in consequence you are in default of it. The claimant was therefore at liberty to seek a charging order over your interest in land and in my opinion the interim charging order was properly made.

    Two things arise.

    [1] since the judgment was made in your absence you may in a proper case, apply for a re-hearing pursuant to CPR 23.11.
    [2] you do not say if the agreement was regulated under consumer crediticon Act 1974.. If it was, article 2(3)(a) of The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 prohibits the recovery of statutory interest on the judgment debt post judgment. Check whether the claim sought post-judgment contractual interest (as opposed to statutory interest) and the judgment allowed for post-judgment contractual interest to be recovered as part of the judgment.

    Any queries, just yell.

    x20


  13. #13

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    As this is really bugging me, and I don't like to take things lying down, could somebody please clarify the effects that a Charging Order against property holds?
    From a real point of view, what are the imposed restrictions apart from obviously inability to sell property with paying both charges. What are the ramifications for re-mortgaging ? Was are the views taken by the orginal lender, obviously credit is harder to obtain, especially in this current climate. Credit files affected, does the normal rules apply after 6 yearsicon or is it longer?

    The reason that I ask is that there seems to be no information on this subject in the forums and yet there are many that have had this process applied, or are soon due to go through this, and maybe if people know exactly how it will effect them, they may take it a bit more seriously once they know how it will effect their lives.

    I myself am only now coming to realise how seroius this could become.
    Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong forum, or should I start a new threadicon ?

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    Looks like I am going to try on a Time Order or Installment order on this one. Has anyone got any thoughts on this type of action?

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    Quote Originally Posted by flyboy80 View Post
    As this is really bugging me, and I don't like to take things lying down, could somebody please clarify the effects that a Charging Order against property holds?
    From a real point of view, what are the imposed restrictions apart from obviously inability to sell property with paying both charges. What are the ramifications for re-mortgaging ? Was are the views taken by the orginal lender, obviously credit is harder to obtain, especially in this current climate. Credit files affected, does the normal rules apply after 6 yearsicon or is it longer?

    The reason that I ask is that there seems to be no information on this subject in the forums and yet there are many that have had this process applied, or are soon due to go through this, and maybe if people know exactly how it will effect them, they may take it a bit more seriously once they know how it will effect their lives.

    I myself am only now coming to realise how seroius this could become.
    Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong forum, or should I start a new threadicon ?
    I will try and help as best I can. I have had 2 interim orders succesfuly discharged so have some understanding.

    In answer to your question regarding your credit file the damage has been done. Yor file will alsmost certainly show a default and a CCJ. This will remain on your file for 6 years AFTER the judgment is satisfied. I have not personally tried but I imagine that (especially currently) it will make obtaining mortgagesicon and credit very difficult. It would also be very expensive credit.

    Regarding the charging order. The true implications depend on wether it was a sole or joint debt and if the house is in sole or joint names.

    If the debt was just in your name and the house is in joint names then they can only enter a restriction not a charge. The implications for this are less severe (providing you can find a conveyancer who actually understands the difference).

    This below is from an email from Land Registry which explains the implications of a restriction rather than a charge.

    Restriction

    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.
    It is essentially saying that in the case of restriction you only need to tell the applicant of the charge that the house has been sold.

    If it is a joint debt and joint or sole proprietors then they will enter a charge which would mean the debt would have to be settled upon remortgage (or obtain their permission) or sale of house.

    In terms of other implications, it is possible (although rare - but it may be something they think about due to the relatively high vaule) that a creditor could apply for an order for sale, essentially forcing the sale of the house to honour the charge from the proceeds.

    One other thing, apparently when they have a charging order it does not stop a creditor making another application for another form of enforcement whilst the secured balance of the account remains outstanding. For example they would apply for an attachment of earnings that would have the effect of reducing the amount secured with the charge against the house.

    Hope this is helpful if you have any questions please ask.

    PS- don forget to sign the petition.


  16. #16

    Default Re: Interim charging Orders

    Many thanks, can I ask has there been a rise in creditors seeking further action against people, once charging orders have been made final?
    News stories and views and this forum suggest that as with Home reposessions, charging orders are very much in the upward direction?

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  17. #17

    Default RBS/Shoosmiths Charging Order [Loan+OD] **SET ASIDE**

    Hi Guys,

    Would anybody be able to offer any assistance or advice on my current situation.
    The brief is as follows:-

    Today went to court to ask for a set aside against an Interim Charging Order, because I did not recieve the orginal CCJ from Northampton County Courts, and the hearing had been moved to my local courts.

    My application was filed late so the set aside and the Interim was heard together.
    Because I have disputed the final amount owed the DJ has basically adjourned for 2 weeks whilst I submit a witness statement for my defence.

    History of claim is that I had a current bank account, loan account and joint account with RBSicon.

    I had my salary paid into the current account monthly, from which my loans, overdraft and joint account were serviced from.

    My wife fell behind in payments to RBS when she was on Maternity leave, RBS promptly closed her account and mine because we were financially related.

    Till this time I was not behind in any payments, but now could not use my bank account.
    They demanded outstanding monies in full some £17K, plus my wife's £12K.
    We set up a standing order to service them. They said that it was not enough to pay back monthly and that they would seek to get a charging order against the property.

    I had contacted RBS on several occasions with offers of monthly payment, but each time it was rejected. They wanted me to pay effectively twice what I had offered, so that the whole amount would be paid in a 5 year period.

    Considering the loan that was originally taken out over 7 years monthly payment was high, with the overdraft, joint bank account overdraft, my wife's accounts, totalled up was a large amount anyway.
    There was no way to pay this amount, pay bills and bring up two small children.


    Last year they took my wife to court regarding her amount outstanding, and they sucessfully won this.

    As soon as this happened, they started on me.

    The DJ has given me time to prepare my defence, what things do I need to ask from Shoosmiths / RBS in order to prepare.

    My issue is not to pay, I have made countless offers, I always wanted to pay them something that was reasonable, given the circumstances, they just kept refusing. The fact that they already have a charging order on my property is bad enough. At this rate they will own a large chunk of it.

    I thought by way of getting an installment order would help. I tried to get this today but the DJ said that he could not deal with it because the other facts needed to be sorted first.

    Sorry it's long winded but I now have summoned up enough fight in me to start again with RBS, I cannot and will not accept that they have made my life so miserable for the last 3 years, affected my wife's outlook on life and worst still intend to further threaten the roof over my kids heads. I will do whatever I can to stop this from happening, these guys have too much power, all I have ever asked for is common sense reasoning and fair play.

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Flyboy80 v RBS / Shoosmiths Charging Order

    I'm a bit confused as to exactly what the judge has agreed to here. Did he set aside the CCJ or the Interim Charging Order?

    Anyway we do know that he has told you to put in a witness statement. Do you have a copy of the CCA for the loan account? Did you ever receive a Termination Notice for either the current or joint accounts? Did you ever receive a Default Notice for the loan account and if you did can you scan it in and post it here to let the experts check it over to see if it complies with the CCA 1974? Are there any penalty/administration charges in relation to any of your loan, current or joint accounts?

    You'll need to ask Shoosmiths/RBSicon for copies of any of the above documents that you don't have.


  19. #19

    Default Re: Flyboy80 v RBS / Shoosmiths Charging Order

    Hi DocH, many thanks for your response.

    As far as I can tell the DJ has adjorned in order for me to put forward my defence as to why I am applying for a set aside.
    He also wants to know when I was aware of the the court action against me.
    As I have disputed the figures he also wants me to indicate how much I believe is outstanding.

    Example :-

    Default notice states

    1) Account 1 - £10,108.48
    2) Account 2 - £4,468.44
    3) Account 3 - £1,091.82

    Shoosmith Witness statement reads

    1) Account 1 - £10,058.48
    2) Account 2 - £5,748.45
    3) Account 3 - £1091.82

    DJ has said Account 3 is still liable as it is a joint account, and though this was brought up in previous case, RBSicon will still hold me liable for this until it is paid off. So effectively they could get two payments against this.

    I will post all other stuff shortly though so that you can have a look.

    01.08.06 - RBOS - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

    01.08.06 - Alliance @ Leicester Credit Card - S.A.R sent
    03.09.06 - £495 owed - Alliance and Leicester sent cheque for £130 - Accepted as partial payment
    03.09.06 Alliance & Leicester - LBA letter sent to recover remainder
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    Following
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Flyboy80 v RBS / Shoosmiths Charging Order

    I think we need clarification of exactly what it is that the judge has ordered. Could you phone the court and speak to the court manager and ask what the judge has put on your file?

    If you did not put in a defence prior to the issue of the CCJ, then the judge must set the judgement aside in accordance with CPR 13.2:

    PART 13 - SETTING ASIDE OR VARYING DEFAULT JUDGMENT

    and:

    National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 12 How To Set Aside A Judgment In The county court

    All you will need for that is a brief witness statement indicating what your defence will cover.

    However, from what you have said it appears that the judge may be after a detailed witness statement refuting the claimants claim.

    If you haven't got all the documents to hand then you'll need to get letters off to the solicitors asking for them, which means things will be tight to get everything back in time for you to submit your witness statement, as he has only allowed 14 days.


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