Hi Guys

I am hoping someone can help me, I am new on here so please bare with me.

Firstly about me i am 38 years of age, work too, i am a regional Senior Sales Accounts Manager for a very large firm, own my home etc. i have no criminal record as i worked for the local police for nearly 8 years and i am one of the most nicest genuine and HONEST people you could wish to meet, as my friends and family have told me today.

I live in a village where there is a Co-op supermarket and i visit this daily on my way home, home is a 5 min walk away, i use it to buy papers, fags, bread, milk and various other bits too. I have shopped here since moving to the village 4 years ago,

Yesterday i went in as normal i purchased various goods in a basket and they had an offer on a Double Bed Memory foam topper for £39.99, i looked at this with a lady who was shopping and it seemed a good buy and picked one up, it was in a box about the size of a large suitcase.

I continued picking up stuff and putting in the basket and headed towards the kiosk as i wanted to do my Lotto and get some fags too, the lady who served me was W**** and she knows me really well from going in here daily and we were having a moan about the recent snow etc, and she was chatting about a local raffle and thought yes i will have a go, anyway paid for my stuff, left the store got into my car, lit a fag up and answered my phone as a colleague was chasing a matter up ( about 3 mins ) the call was, anyhow off i drove home and went i got to my back door, i realised something was not right, so i placed my shopping down, checked the till receipt which was 13.55 hrs and the time now was 14.06 hrs and noticed i had not paid for my topper matress, i rang the store at 14.06 hrs and a lady answered and i said i have got this item here but i have not paid, can i pay over the phone, she said they cannot do this and put me on to a manager who listened and thanked me for my honesty and said next time i pop in ask for him and he will sort this out and would give me a bottle of wine for my honesty, i said i am soo sorry and would call in as normal on Saturday morning about 08.30 to pay, so like i said i went in at 08.25hrs and picked my basket up and spent £29.00 and paid, i said to the lady at the kiosk could i speak to the manager S**** and she said can i come this way to the managers office, i was told to take a seat, whilst there i was thinking a bit strange, i thought i would have to go to a till, anyway the manager came in with a young lad who is a shopworker, and i stood up to say who i was etc, and he replied back saying i was a thief and that i deliberatly tried to conceal the item for not paying, he would not let me speak and said that 2 security officers were watching me and they watched me drive off, he said he had watched a video and he states it was very obvious that i tried to get away without payment, now i have to see it from there eyes and it may look like that, but i was on auto pilot and just took it without realising, hence when i did find out what happened i rang the store immediatly.

He said then, that i was barred from the store for good, and i replied that i was a good customer and he was well aware of this, and said the ban was in place as i was thief, i offered again at this stage to pay for it, and he said he wanted the item back within 15 mins and that i was barred, i was so shocked and shaking, never had this before in my life, i picked up my 2 x carrier bags and one of the bags split, i asked him for another bag and he said No, but the young man in there too, offered to get me one and he actually helped me put the new shopping in the bag, and then i was told i had 15 mins to return the product or the police were involved, so i was marched out in front of all the customers and staff looking at me, i made my way home, got the product and returned the product and left,

I am soo upset and feel dirty this has happened to me, and my family and friends cant believe it, i have rang the Co-Op head office but they are closed at weekends and i have left a message for them to call me, as i would like an apology.

If i was a shoplifter, which i can say hand on heart i am not, i would not have rang instantly to offer payment etc.... Can anyone help me here, what i should do ?

Michael

Well, I hope you know the name of the manager you spoke to who thanked you and get him to testify on your behalf.

As for the police, let them if they dare. Personally, I wouldn't return the item until the other manager has been contacted and his version asked for.

Hi Bookworm

Thanks for your reply, well the manager in question is the same one who delat with me today, he said he watchd the video and spoke to the security staff and he said, i was deliberatly trying to pinch it, i honestly wasn't, it has really upset me so much.

Hi Michael,

I hear what you are saying and agree that the way in which you have been treated is 100% wrong.

The store manager does have the right to ban anyone from entering the stoe for any reason. He can do that as the shop is classed as private property and as a member of the public the shop is allowing you to enter unless the store manager revokes this invite by telling you.

I worked for many years in senior retail security roles.

However, I know for a fact tha if I had taken the action that this store manager has then I would get my arse kicked from here to kingdom come by head office.

It is isnteresting thatthe store security watched you leave the store without paying for the item and chose not to do anything about it.

I commend your honesty Michael as I doubt many other people would have offered to pay for the item if they were in the same situation.

In my opinion te best way to deal with this matter would be to contact the local newspaper to see if they would run a story about it. Maybe even the national papers.

The store in question would hate the bad publicity and I am 100% certain that you would receive one heck of an apology and the store manager would receive 'further training' to improve his customer service skills.

If the story was covered by a newspaper then you would receive the public vote which would also clear your name of any wrong doing.

I know for a fact that a real shoplifter would not go to the newspapers to have this story covered because a good shoplifter relies on being anonymous.

I would 100% go to the newspapers about this Michael.

With regard to this incident being classed as theft? Well, actually no it isn't.

The actual act of theft didn't ever occur because you have not permantly deprived the store of te goods.

Had you have gotten home, realized what had happened AND THEN chosen not to return the item or make offer of payment for it then yes an act of theft woul dhave taken place at THAT moment.

A store has to prove the INTENT beyond all reasonable doubt that they person was going to permantantly deprive the store of the goods.

With this the store manager cannot use the reason for banning you because you are a theif and in fact by calling you a theif it could be classed as defimation of character.

Maybe you should also seek leal advice on this matter and then consider taking the store to court for damages. I quite sure they would settly out of court.

Sorry for the spelling errors - in a rush here

Hi Shezboy

Thankyou so much for your reply, i am so honest i always have been, it was a maistake and if i could turn the clock back i really would, what it has learn't me is to be more alert, my fault at the end of the day.

I have rang there head office but they are not open till Monday, so i have left a message.

I would love to go to the papers but i cannot really, as i have such a high profile job, i dont think my employers would be to impressed, but beleive me i would if i could.

Also i know i would have the public vote on my side, as this is just plain disgusting, i have never ever felt so ashamed and dirty in all my entire life, it has really shook me up. I am honest and look where it has got me ?

I would seek legal advice and then take them to court as can sue the store manager and the store for damages.

I assure you that they will settle out of court due to the details and circumstances of this incident. Trust me, if this had happened when I was working at Sainsburys or Tesco then I would have been torn apart by head office. I would expect to receive an immediate final written warning too.

You should expect an easy win in court although I know that the Co-op wouldn't want it to get to court.

Your good name has been damaged by the actions of the store manager who was representing the Co-op at the time which is why you can sue both of them.

Woah - this is heavy.... bear with me cos i've seen similar to this before. I'll try and find the article to point you in the right direction.... brb

Here you go: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/56176-wrongly-accused-shoplifting-treated.html

Some contact details:

The Co-operative Group

Customer Relations

Freepost MR9473

Manchester

M4 8BA

or

Email: [email protected]

or

Phone: 0800 068 6727

Need help complaining, with your letters etc?? Try this: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/51998-how-complain-comprehensive-guide.html

Hi Shezboy

Thankyou once again, Well to put my mind at ease again, i have just rangthe local police and told them everything that has happened and he agreed with me, that now this lies on a civil matter and that i need to make a complaint thru the head office of the Co-op.

He also stated that if i was a shoplifter they don't tend to nomally contact the owner of the property to confess and make payment, and he said as i did that i was not wrong in my actions, as i have done evrything by the book, but like i say it has actually scared me and i did not know how scared i could be, i just feel so ashamed and dirty, your words are of most help and i will complain to the Co-op and may seek some legal advice on this matter, Do you know if anyone else has had this happen to them ?

Mike

Do you know if anyone else has had this happen to them ?

 

Mike

Post 7 above - lots of help/similar stories for you to digest over...

It is isnteresting thatthe store security watched you leave the store without paying for the item and chose not to do anything about it.

Agreed, to be honest they never watched you at all, what really happened is after you rung the store they checked the CCTV and then noticed what had happened. If they'd watch you do it then they would have to act at the time, you cannot retrospectively be 'done' unless they have the till roll etc to prove you never paid, too much hassle for 40 pounds.

I commend your honesty Michael as I doubt many other people would have offered to pay for the item if they were in the same situation.

Agreed. If you were a real thief then it's unlikely you'd ring the store and admit it and to be honest the way you have been treated is not only a disgrace but I think it's bordering illegal.

In my opinion te best way to deal with this matter would be to contact the local newspaper to see if they would run a story about it. Maybe even the national papers.

Maybe a little excessive at this point. To be honest the best course of action would be to write to Head Office and complain, explaining how the incident has distressed you and caused you to suffer by way of embarrasment and by way of having to go out your way to go shopping. The more losses you seem to have the bigger they will see the potential claim against them. Initially i'd be looking to let the store sort the problem and make a suitable offer of recompense with the threat if they do not act within 21 days then you will have no alternative but to seek legal advice and take action against Co-operative for defamation of character which carries a maximum 5k claim potential at small claims court.

If you have to then go to the local and/or national press for the publicity then you are not afraid to do so. Mention that you are, as a matter of standard, reporting the officers to their respective company (security will be outsourced and provided by Group4/Securitas/Reliance etc) to query their positions and seek proof of their SIA credentials also complaining about their tactics and lack of industry knowledge, maybe suggesting a training issue. They are as much to blame as the store manager. I assume they would have followed all relevant guidance set in place before viewing you on CCTV? Again, this threat may make them think twice as they cannot simply view CCTV and rewind it etc just for fun! There are rules preventing this.

I would 100% go to the newspapers about this Michael.

I wouldn't, not just yet. Unless you are 100% accurate in your facts they could counterclaim for Libel. Once it has been printed you cannot get away from it so be very careful.... Try the threat, as above, first..

With regard to this incident being classed as theft? Well, actually no it isn't.

Correct. It was an honest mistake and you should demand that the store manager apologises to you in writing and to your face, no exceptions. You also expect him to be disciplined, however you will trust the co-op to deal with this as they see fit.

The actual act of theft didn't ever occur because you have not permantly deprived the store of te goods.

 

Had you have gotten home, realized what had happened AND THEN chosen not to return the item or make offer of payment for it then yes an act of theft woul dhave taken place at THAT moment.

Not really pertinent - at the end of the day you didn't steal anything, you were distracted and owned up to an honest mistake.

A store has to prove the INTENT beyond all reasonable doubt that they person was going to permantantly deprive the store of the goods.

Hmmm, not sure about this one, its open to interpretation - but again, it isn't really pertinent.

With this the store manager cannot use the reason for banning you because you are a theif and in fact by calling you a theif it could be classed as defimation of character.

It is defamation of character, nothing more nothing less. That is the legal stand here. However, that is not an offence in criminal law, unfortunately it is civil law which means you gotta pay ...... last resort would be to take legal action!

Maybe you should also seek leal advice on this matter and then consider taking the store to court for damages. I quite sure they would settly out of court.

I'd wait for the moment, you have to give the store/company reasonable allowance to 'put things right' before taking up legal issues. Also, it's not for you say whether they will settle out of court. Bigger companies will spend more on legal fees than the payout purely to save face - they will not let a one-man-band slag them or their brand off, however right the one-man-band is. Sorry but it's the way it is.

Look at UK26 vs Experian on here for an example

Hope this lot helps, only my input but should be enough to get you started. Good luck - keep us posted.

Hi

Well thanks for all the help, i rang the Manchester number and we come under Midlands Coop he gave me the number and has took my complaint on board, he was quite alarmed at my treatment and he is calling me back in 30 mins to let me know what i can do, so fingers crossed and i will update here

Mike

Just to clarify. There was NO theft, and you are not a thief. To be guilty of theft, you must have INTENDED to deprive the owner of the property permanently. Clearly there is no such intention, which is wholly proven by the fact you called up and came back etc.

Shocking treatment. Speak to head office if required, I am sure a proper customer sevice department will agree that the treatment is very much OTT.

Hi

Well they have just rang me, the customer services Dept in Manchester and his words are " Totally unacceptable at the way i have been treated " he is notifying Midlands Coop of my situation and they will handle from there.

Apparently the store manager in question will not relent down and insists i was there to deprive them of there stock and i only acted when i saw a security gaurd ?????? i never saw one, Honestly

He also feels he has made the right decision and that they dont allow theifs in there stores !

So i can only let you all know how i get on, on Monday

Thanks guys

Michael

i only acted when i saw a security gaurd ??????

Yep, I can see how that would work. Not.

This guy is burying himself a hole that's getting bigger by the second.

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your kind assistance, all i can do now is wait till Monday now for the Co-op to call me, the head office that is.

I have been to a family meeting tonight and they are all behind me as they know i would not steal anything, and they know me the best, so i know i have a clear consciense. ( not sure how u spell this )

I will keep you updated on this matter, i am sure they will stand by each other which is normal, but i will do my best

Mike

Hi

Update for you all, Well rang there Head Office and the lady when i told her everything said she was shocked by the actions, and is now passing my complaint on for investigation.

I have also been to see the Security officer at a local supermarket a bit more well known to get there opinion, and they were so helpful and mortified by the actions i have had, and they have said if i want any further help i may contact them, but they have told me to fight it as much as i can.

I have also contacted 2 local police forces as we border them where i live, and they have both told me that there is no criminal act taken and that i need to pursue this on Civil Law terms.

So when i hear anything i will let you guys know

Mike

So let me get this right, according to him, you went home with your stolen goods, saw a security guard (at home, presumably?), then decided to phone the store to confess to your crime (for reasons best known to yourself) and voluntarily went back to the store to allow them to accuse you when you had clearly got away with the theft?

 

Yep, I can see how that would work. Not.

 

This guy is burying himself a hole that's getting bigger by the second.

LOL now that is funny ;-)

Hi Shezboy

It is funny, i spoke to my Big Bosses today and they are so outraged at this matter, and them like all my all other friends and family have said, not you Michael, you are one of the most honest genuine people walking around this planet of ours.

Well all i can do now is sit and wait for an outcome, i am not too hopeful as i imagine a big company like this will stand by there manager and not give in, but hey they may suprise me !!!!

Mike

Hi

 

Well they have just rang me, the customer services Dept in Manchester and his words are " Totally unacceptable at the way i have been treated " he is notifying Midlands Coop of my situation and they will handle from there.

Apparently the store manager in question will not relent down and insists i was there to deprive them of there stock and i only acted when i saw a security gaurd ?????? i never saw one, Honestly

He also feels he has made the right decision and that they dont allow theifs in there stores !

So i can only let you all know how i get on, on Monday

Thanks guys

 

Michael

I think the store manager used to be a JCB driver as he seems used to being able to dig big holes for himself with ease.

As you already know Michael, the actual ACT of theft never took place which means you cannot be called a theif by the store manager who is acting in an official capacity as store manager for the Co-op.

PLEASE make sure you keep us up dated as to how this pans out. I'd love to meet this store manager and actually have a chat with him about the whole incident.

It sounds as though he needs some things pointing out to him.

As someone mentioned earlier, there was no security guard watching you on CCTV. They have only reviewed the CCTV AFTER you pointed out to them what had happened. This probably left them quite red faced too.

I am quite sure that someone from head office will be able to sort this whole matter out fairly swiftly as it seems the store manager is the only one who thinks what you did is theft - clearly it is not theft.

And for my last point on the matter of theft - what really makes a difference here is that when they reviewed the video, IF it had shown you concealing the item before leaving the store then they may have a case that you were trying to steal the item.

This is where the part about "INTENT" comes in to play. The store has to prove your intent to permantily deprive the store of the goods.

Lets say you are in a shop and you pick up an item and place it in your coat pocket and then leave the store without paying for that item then the store would be able to prove your INTENT.

When working for Tesco I monitored a young girl who was shoping with her mum. The girl placed a small makeup item in the trolley and then placed her mums handbag on top of the item which hid it from view.

When they passed through the checkout the handbag wasn't moved so the item of makeup wasn't paid for. But at that point we could not legally do anything. I had to wait for them to get to their car and when the mum lifted her handbag she saw the item of makeup. It was at this point that they realised that the item had not been paid for.

It was their actions at this point which made the difference of this being an honest mistake or theft. If they left the item in the trolley or returned it to the store it would have been just one of those honest mistakes.

As it turned out, at that point they chose to remove the item from the trolley and get in to their car with it.

At that point the daughter was arrested for theft as the act had taken place and the "INTENT" could be proved.

Thanks for that, you are ALL so super in helping me here, i was asked a very good question today, which was " if you could turn the clock back, would you change anything ? " i replied NO, as i have not done anything wrong, it is them, and my god i will give them a good run now.

This really affected me at the weekend i did not know i could suffer with a panic attack as i did on Saturday.

Like i say, i will let you guys know how it does go and THANKYOU for all your help

Mike

Good luck!

Ok, please don't take this the wrong way, but I think maybe it's time to be a bit less passive and go on the attack?

I think a very strong letter (you really must stop doing this by phone) of complaint should go to head office, outlining the events, the appalling way in which you were treated, the slanderous accusations of being a thief, the humiliation suffered in the store, the besmirching of your up to now impeccable reputation, the stress you've been put under, the panic attack etc... Hold no punches.

Don't ask for, DEMAND an apology, and suitable compensation for the stress and harm the actions of the manager have caused you.

At the moment, they are tryign to get rid of you and a thorny situation with as little trouble as possible. Time to get angry and make life uncomfortable for them. It's the only language these people understand, sadly.

I have just read a thread where one of our users was discriminated against under the DDA, but no point in giving you the link to read as he has edited his posts... why, you may ask? Oh, only because the company in question paid him a VERY large amount of money to make him go away and keep quiet (I assume anyway ), but the last I remember, he was threatening to take them to court for thousands... and they caved.

Like I often say:

Haha, I did a few cool bus slogan things the other day, Bookworm, after someone posted that generator on another forum

Hi

Well just an update, i have had a letter from the Co-op saying they are now investigating this matter and collecting statements from the all the staff involved and observers.

I have managed to get a solicitor ( bloody good ) one too, i went to see him yesterday and when i told him my story he was fuming, and what we are going to do, is wait till Weds next week for the response, and then i have to fax the letter to my solicitor, and basically he said they will try and protect there arses, and he basically will rip into them.

He also stated the Coop in my village has a good reputation and he said they will not want that to be marred and when he contacts them, they would not want to deal with him and will conclude the case, so i will let you all know how i get on, once again thanks for all your help and support

Michael

Good luck Mike - what a dreadful thing to have happened. I cannot believe it!!!

It's their fault that they missed scanning it anyway, and as you say, as soon as you got home you rang them to sort it out and then went in to pay for it. He's obviously thought he could make a name for himself - well he certainly has now. His bosses will be delighted to receive the Solicitors letter.

I hope that their investigation shows that muppet of manager up for exactly what he is - a jumped up little nothing:mad:

Best wishes x