I am absolutely livid to find that I have been charged £76 for non-payment of 2 direct debits set to come out of my RBS account on the 1st of the month. I knew payment would be requested, but given the fact that in Scotland both the 1st and 2nd are holidays and I don't expect branches to be open, I hadn't paid any cash in to cover them as with the way the banking system works I didn't expect payments to be processed until the next working day, ie Monday 5th, I wasn't particularly worried.

Basics of my situation: I have a key account plus. Balance of account on 1st January was £20.29. On 2nd January a standing order for £1 came out. Same date, the two direct debits amounting to £21.55 and £22.04 respectively were presented. I have no overdraft facility so RBS wouldn't honour the payments. Yet at the end of business on friday they have hit me for 2x£38 charges making my balance... £56.71 overdrawn. Come Monday, I have another direct debit for £7.50 due to be paid. I can't afford to clear the charges so that will be another £38 down the swanney!

Anyone care to add fuel to the fire of my letter of complaint asking for the charges to be refunded?

Hi, craigers.

If it's the first charges they have hit you with, it's always worth your while, giving them a phone and asking for them back, If it's not the first time, you'll have to start the process and re-claim them.

Too late now I know, but it's always better to get the cash in one or two days before they're due to come out. I was hammered for years with the same sort of thing, nightmare.

Regards.

Scott.

They hit me for a charge a few months back. I managed to get it refunded as the staff and literature in my local branch wrongly advised that payments made before 3.30pm would be credited to my account in time to cover direct debits etc when the new faster payments cut-off time of 11am was in fact in force.

I'd ask them for it back again, you never know.

I fully intend to. I know what their response will be though...

I'm gonna have to go down the whole overdraft, or lack of, route I think.

I fully intend to. I know what their response will be though...

 

I'm gonna have to go down the whole overdraft, or lack of, route I think.

Is your account in Scotland or England and Wales?

It be in Scotland. I do see from their website that they moved to harmonise with England, so effectively they don't treat 2nd January as a bank holiday. I imagine its a central agency that dealt with the DDs though, probably doon in England-shire. Fingers crossed my branch was closed on friday. Thats more ammo...

You mean they bounced a DD even though Thursday and Friday is a Bank Holiday and you have the weekend already? Or they have told you over the phone that it is happening?

They bounced both of them on Friday. I only know cos I was checking online banking.

Whilst I know that I should ensure money is in the account to pay them, I don't expect the bank to process them until the next working day, like they do every other weekend/bank holiday...

They bounced both of them on Friday. I only know cos I was checking online banking.

 

Whilst I know that I should ensure money is in the account to pay them, I don't expect the bank to process them until the next working day, like they do every other weekend/bank holiday...

Can you ask the question of how you could pay into your account on a BANK holiday ie Friday? Furthermore, I hope they do not tell you that you could have driven over the border to England and Wales cos that doesn't wash really. Is there anything in the terms and conditions for Bank Holidays in scotland?(Now I am intrigued )

Is the branch where you opened your account in Scotland?

The branch is in Scotland.

Page 3 of the RBS Personal Banking T&Cs states that Scots Law applies to my account as I am domiciled in Scotland. It also states that a business day is any day from Monday to Friday (inclusive) which is not a bank holiday. The 2nd January is a statutory bank holiday in Scotland under The Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971. Ergo, it is not unreasonable to assume that branches will be closed and payments will not be processed on Friday, 2nd January?

Just checked my local branch- they were closed on Friday. Nearest open branch would've been 30-odd miles away...

Craigers, I would put a formal complaint on that basis alone on the basis that you had no way of making a payment prior to the payment being returned.

I sent off the following letter today...

I am writing in protest at the 2 x £38 bank charges applied to my account on 2nd, January 2009 in relation to unpaid direct debits. Whilst I cannot argue there were sufficient funds available at the time the direct debits were presented, I am aggrieved that they have actually been processed on this date and challenge these penalties on the following grounds:

(i) Friday 2nd, January 2009 was a statutory bank holiday in Scotland, as prescribed in Section 1 of The Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971. My nearest branch, Dunbar s/c 831808, was closed on Friday 2nd, January 2009 – a good indication that it was a bank holiday.

(ii) Under the section Introduction (viii) of the RBS Personal and Private Banking Terms and Conditions, a “business day” refers to “any day from Monday to Friday (inclusive) which is not a bank holiday”.

(iii) Saturday and Sunday are not classed as business days, and as such, any direct debits due to be paid on these days will not be processed until the next business day, ie Monday. Ergo, payments due on a bank holiday will not be processed until the next business day. I have used these “grace periods” to my advantage many times.

Had I been aware that the bank holiday of 2nd, January 2009 was a bank holiday merely by name I would have ensured that sufficient funds were available in my account for the payments to be honoured.

I now find myself in the position that I can’t afford to pay these charges in the immediate future. As a result, within the next few days I will incur a further unpaid item fee of £38 due to insufficient funds to pay a direct debit of only £7.50. In total, I will have been penalised £114, when the value of the offending direct debits totalled only £51.09.

To add further insult to injury my account has no overdraft facility, yet these charges I have incurred effectively mean I have applied for an unarranged overdraft, the very facility denied to me when the direct debits were not honoured.

This is nothing more than a case of miscommunication and inconsistency, which can easily be prevented in future by making it clear in-branch/online/statements that RBS do not observe the 2nd of January as a bank holiday.

I find this whole situation totally unacceptable and will only be satisfied if the charges are refunded to my account immediately.

I look forward to your response.

Well, I had a further £38 charges for the £7.50 DD, and the day after another £38 for a DD of £9.62. Got a DD for £just shy of £50 to come out either tomorrow or Monday. That'll be another £38. A total of £190!!

I feel the urge to use the C word!!

Well, I had a further £38 charges for the £7.50 DD, and the day after another £38 for a DD of £9.62. Got a DD for £just shy of £50 to come out either tomorrow or Monday. That'll be another £38. A total of £190!!

 

I feel the urge to use the C word!!

I would suggest cancelling Direct Debits initially to avoid the charges. You can always ring up the DD providers and simply tell them that the bank are sorting out an issue with your account and you will re instate the DD when it is dealt with(you can do this within 90 days of cancelling it ).

I recently got a reply (dated 9th January) to my letter, offering to refund the two initial charges. I have since sent this reply...

Thank you for your letter dated 9th, January 2009 and the offer to refund the 2 x £38.00 Unpaid Item Fee incurred on my account on 2nd January. I must, however, ask that you also refund the subsequent penalties applied on the 6th and 7th January.

As explained in my previous letter (copy enclosed) I could not afford to clear the charges which I believe were unfairly incurred on 2nd January. This meant the money which I would’ve deposited into my account to pay the direct debits for £x due on 6th January and the £y due on 7th January would only serve to pay back approx 20% of the charges previously incurred, resulting in a further 2 x £38.00 Unpaid Item Fee. Cancelling the direct debits would’ve prevented these further charges being incurred. Unfortunately, this was not an option open to me as I only became aware of the initial charges over that weekend which was too late to cancel, according to the RBS online banking system, “If the next payment is due to be made in the next three working days, it will go through even if you cancel this Direct Debit”.

I must also protest at the £38.00 Unpaid Item Fee incurred on 9th January. Once again, I could not avoid this charge due to the £152.00 of charges incurred between 2nd and 7th January. Whilst I accept that I had time to cancel the direct debit, I really do not believe that £38.00 is a fair and true reflection of the costs to your organisation, and as such I believe these fees are purely a lucrative cash-cow for RBS.

Whilst I do not wish to make this a protracted affair, should I not be satisfied with the outcome then I will have no option but to refer my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I’m sure you agree this benefits neither party, particularly RBS given the potential charge of £450.00 for a FOS case fee.

I look forward to your response.

Well, bank says no!

We've refunded charges before, and offered a partial refund as a goodwill gesture.

If I wish to take complaint further they ask me to phone customer relations.

Then they say if I'm no happy with their investigation, caontact the FOS after xx xxx xx date.

Then they say quickest and most direct course would be to cal me if there is any problem.

I'm no letting this one lie. Any thoughts on what I should do?

I'm not an expert but it strikes me that your argument is slightly different from most people's in that you don't need to rely on the whole penalty charges/true representation of costs thing. Your argument is that the bank broke its own rules about processing on a bank holiday and because of this you have incurred costs that you had no opportunity to mitigate. In other words any action you take against the bank will be for damages for breach of contract.

It might be worth having a word with a solicitor, or perhaps there's someone on here who could expand on the idea with a bit more knowledge than I have.

To be honest, the whole situation is farcical and a classic example of the sort of thing that causes people to despise banks. They say no processing on a bank holiday and the branch is closed but then they process the dds and charge you for it. They then agree that the charges are wrong and refund them (eventually) but because they caused subsequent dds to bounce prior to being refunded they don't feel the need to refund the charges for the subsequent bounces? Its ridiculous! The whole mess is caused by them not sticking to their own rules.

Its in the hands of the FOS now...

Craigers we had a big discussion on Bank Holidays on a thread over the weekend(something about clamping and Good friday bank/public holiday thread). Worth a read perhaps for the Law and the Scottish take on that.

The FOS investigation is in full swing. They have written to RBS... Does this mean that RBS have the pleasure of paying the £450-odd fee, or is this only at a later stage?

I think it has either (a) gone up to £500 or (b) will be going up to £500 soon. I will be very interested in the response they give cos it sounds really interesting.

Received a letter the other day from the FOS. An adjudicator is handling my case. So RBS will be hit for £500 once the case is closed.