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Refusal for backdated Housing & Council Tax benefit


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Hi, I have found these forums immensely informative and helpful in the past regarding bank charges. I thank all who contribute here and set aside their own time to help out others with their knowledge.

 

I apologise if this post is a bit long winded but theres a lot of stuff to explain.

 

My situation is that on July 14th I called the DWP to apply for Jobseekers Allowance + Housing/Council Tax benefit. Up until the summer this year I had been a student. I Have never claimed benefits before and have no idea really how these things work, I am a relatively organized person and genuinely got this stuff sorted as soon as I knew what was required of me.

 

At the time I was living at a different address and fully aware I was about to move in a weeks time. During the phone call I mentioned this fact and asked which address I should give or both. I was asked for my current address and told that in a weeks time I should inform the job centre that I had changed address to my new address. So this is what I did.

 

After going through the motions and successfully beginning my claim for jobseekers I naively assumed that I would automatically recieve my housing benefit. After a few weeks I began to inquire on what exactly was going on and I was told at the job centre to wait for correspondence from the council.

 

So, patiently I waited for my correspondence to arrive and many many weeks passed. Every time I inquired at the job centre as to the state of my housing benefit claim I was simply told that it was not theirs to deal with and that I would receive instructions in the post. The staff at the job centre, although friendly were quite unhelpful with anything not related directly to their own job.

 

Eventually after becoming quite concerned because so much time had passed and I was now reaching the end of my student overdraft from paing rent (which I had miraculously managed to bring back up to the zero mark before this) I was given the number of my local council office to call and inquire. (I cannot believe I was not given this sooner).

 

I called the office and finally found out all my correspondence had been being sent to my old address and they had already closed my claim due to a lack of response. I spoke to a helpful and understanding lady on the phone who changed my address on their system, sent out a form for a new claim and explained that I would need to send an accompanying letter explaining my situation and asking for them to "revise the descision to close the claim" and give me a backdated payment.

 

I did all the things necessary and also sent copies of my tenancy agreement and all the other bumf they asked me to. I recieved a confirmation of the start of my NEW claim, from then onwards but was asked for confirmation of the date I wanted the backdate from.

 

Once I provided the confirmation date I was told to wait upto 28 days for a response. I recieved a letter dated 16th December but did not receive it till monday 21st which is 2 days over the 28 day period (I don't know if that makes any difference).

 

It says that they cannot consider backdating as good cause was not shown for failure to provide a form and a form was provided on the 13 August 2008. (sent to my old address).

 

A descision was made not to pay the benefit period because I had not provided the information needed to pay the benefit period.

 

They also use an excuse that I was contacted by telephone and asked to provide evidence of income and that should have been enough. I remember this telephone call and I was contacted by a forigner who didn't speak english very well and I found it extremely difficult to understand what exactly it was he wanted me to do. He asked me a couple of questions which I forget and told me to wait for correspondence in the mail. He certainly did not tell me to provide evidence of income or tell me how to do so and I thought he a bit rude (getting frustrated because I couldn't understand him).

 

Finally they also say that I am not entitled to it because my tenancy started a month before I called to initiate my claim (!?!). Does that mean claims can only be made from the very beginning of tenancies? That seems a little rediculous to me and clutching at straws on their part.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify on that last note there was a month overlap on my new residency and my old one. I was still living in my old address for the first 3 weeks of my new tenancy.

 

This backdate is worth about a thousand pounds or more and I need it to pay back the arrears I now have on my student overdraft used to pay rent while waiting for my claim to start. Surely I am entitled to this backdate as did everything in my power to do what was required of me. The only thing that seems to have messed up this whole sitaution is either a lack of communication from the Job Centre to the council, or not being told originally I would need to change address with the Job Centre AND the Council.

 

I would like some advise as to where to go from here. I was considering sending a letter threatening to contact my local MP on the matter. Maybe contact watchdog? Is that a silly idea?

 

Any and all help will be hugely appreciated.

Edited by Nikon1149
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Good cause is a tricky subject, so please feel free to pull me up/ask questions on anything I say here.

 

Firstly, once you make a JSA claim and you have agreed that you want to claim housing benefit/council tax benefit (HB/CT) then that date you made the JSA claim is the start date for both benefits.

 

However, this is where it gets sticky. You were told to change the address on the phone (correctly).

 

When you changed your address with the jobcentre did you fill out a form and sign it or provide it verbally?

 

If you filled out a form it should have been a NHB1A form which is a change of address form for the council. If you moved address out of one area then you should have also been given a JSA3 form. That is about 40 pages long. The NHB1A is blue and four pages long.

 

If you recognise the NHB1A form from the desciption then you have proof that you provided a change of address and used the specific form to let the council know. Ask for this form to be retrieved from the processing office's storage as this will need to be shown to the council.

 

Sticky part: If you did not fill out a form or only did the jobcentre one (JSA3) it means that although you have told the Jobcentre about the change you have not informed the council.

 

Good cause is saying that you did not inform them and did not provide a good reason for not doing so at the time.

 

The NHB1A form would change that decision.

 

If you didn't use the NHB1A then you could argue that the jobcentre misdirected you. misdirection is incredibly difficult to prove. Something told to you by a jobcentre officer won't necessarily be remembered and their agreement that a misdirection has occurred is important in backdating.

 

The jobcentre's advice to wait for a letter was not helpful.

 

Finally they also say that I am not entitled to it because my tenancy started a month before I called for initiate my claim (!?!).

 

This is wrong. You can claim at any time.

 

So, really this all hinges on proving that you informed either the council or the jobcentre (who would inform the council - NHB1A form again)

 

I would recommend that you contact your local MP for support and the CAB can always act on your behalf. First though, let me know which forms (if any) you filled out so I can see where abouts you are on this.

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Thanks for the reply insyder, much appreciated.

 

Unfortunately because this was quite a while ago now, my memory is a little hazy. I know I certainly filled out a change of address form. I cannot quite rememeber which it was as I vaguely remember filling out a sort form, and also vaguely remember filling out a very long form. But these could have been on different occassions for different reasons. Sorry I can't be more specific there.

 

One thing I am certain of is being very detailed in my explanation of my circumstances during the change of address at the job centre, and also clarifying I had applied for both JSA and housing benefit when I had given my old address on the phone.

 

There are a couple of members of staff in my local job centre who are very helpful and understanding. Would it be a good idea to head down today and ask if theres any way they have on record which forms I filled in? Theres also one guy there who may well be quite helpful on getting support for misdirection on the part of the job centre.

 

Also, what was the CAB you mentioned at the end of the last post?

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Hi,

As I see it you were provided with duff information by the jobcentre. They should have told you to contact the council yourself.

Where two bodies are involved it's always best to contact them both. nothing wrong in doing that.

All councils will fob you off so they don't have to calculate your benefit correctly (too much like hard work).

If it's too late to appeal their decision, I would complain to the benefits section.

Head your letter "Formal Complaint" and state what you have told us. DO NOT ring them unless you can record the conversation.

At the end of your letter ask them to do a "Retrospective benefit assessment" (they may call it something else) going as far back as the start of the claim. If they refuse, take your complaint to the chief executive. He/She doesn't like being bothered by "little" things like this so they get a bit miffed and the minions below get it.

If after all that you get nowhere, complain to the Local Government Ombudsman and your MP, MEP Uncle tom cobley and all.

 

Councils are allowed to go back as far as nescessary to ensure the claim is correct.

Don't take "NO" for an answer.

 

It will take a while so whilst you're waitng you need to be making an offer to pay the arrears even if you dispute the figure.

Is it council housing, private or Housing Association?

 

anything else you need just shout

 

fox

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If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Just another thought. If you haven't done so, claim housing benefit overlap.

This covers the rent on both places but I don't know if you can backdate it.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Hi Silverfox, thanks for the reply.

 

It's not too late to appeal the descision I only had the actual refusal on monday even after all this time. They said in the letter I had 28 days to appeal.

 

Also, in the reply to Insyder the more I think about it the more im pretty sure it was a blue short form I filled out when changing my address. Also, what consitutes as a move out of the area? I moved from postcode BS1 to BS2.

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As you moved within the councils jurisdiction that doesn't matter. It was meant if you left the city for the county or into another area completely.

 

Make sure you keep us informed of any news.

I've had battles with my council (nowhere near yours) so I can empathise with you over what you're going through.

 

fox

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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There's a warning in this for any future new H.B. claimants, don't rely on Jobcentre/DWP to communicate with the Housing Benefits section of your Council - tell the Council yourself and don't hesitate to phone them and ask them to report their progress with your application.

My Council (and others I presume) have their own 'in house' HB/CTB form, I always tell claimants not to even bother with the HB form which JC+/DWP issue with their 'claims pack' if they can get themselves down to the Council the same day. Unfortunately, even doing this is no guarantee - as happened to me in 2001 when due to a house number typo on the documents sent by (the then) 'Benefits Agency' to the Council, all correspondence from the HB section was being sent to a house 10 doors further down the road, despite the fact that I had given my correct address on the Council's HB form.

After waiting 3 weeks and facing destitution with no news from the Council, I went to their offices demanding an explanation, only to be told, "we put on our system the address given by the Benefits Agency, it's their fault not ours." (Damn those useless bureaucratic jobsworths!)

So then I mentioned that I had filled in and returned the Council's HB/CTB form with my correct house number (I was becoming livid) and said, "doesn't it occur to you people to read your own forms, especially seeing as your letters weren't being replied to, would checking the address have been too much effort."

 

I'm not as knowledgeable as the excellent others giving advice on this thread, however it looks like Nikon stands a good to certain chance of having this silly decision overturned - so stand your ground Nikon and give them both barrels blazing.

Edited by loan_ranger
missed word

I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/127741-benefits-advice.html"]see this post[/URL] by Joa, great advice and links! I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.

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@Loanranger. Good advice, you'll be a great welfare rights advisor.

@Nikon. Sorry, CAB stands for Citizen's Advice Bureau.

 

What is definite is that we are agreeing that you have a case. If the small blue form (NHB1A, remember) can be found then it's cast iron that a mistake has been made and you should be back-dated to the date on the form (or earlier if it can be proved).

 

Good luck

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There is case law to say that closing a claim due to lack of response is a decision with a right of appeal. The upshot of this is that as long as you provide the information within a month of the closure, they must revise the decision based on the new information and you will have continuous entitlement. This is not backdating so no reason is needed.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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