Its common knowledge that Citi are misleading people in the event that they are unable to find an executed agreement after receiving a s78(1) Consumer Credit Act request.

Sending customers recent Terms & Conditions or stating that the varied Terms & Conditions sent with statements and new cards fulfil their duty is incorrect.

The regulations are specific, in all instances a request for the executed agreement should be accompanied by the varied Terms & Conditions. For purposes of an s78(1) CCA request, if Terms & Conditions are reference in the executed agreement a copy of those original Terms & Conditions should also be included.

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in

Therefore in just providing a copy of the Varied Terms & Conditions the s78(1) CCA request remains unfulfilled and goes into default after a period of 12+2 days of receipt by Citi.

The addition of interest, penalty charges and the further processing of data to the credit reference agencies whilst a request for the executed agreement (i.e. signed agreement) is in default is an action that Citi have no legal entitlement to do, is certainly unlawful, and may potentially be illegal if they attempt to justify this - in my case they did this after my complaint which equates to deception.

COMPLAIN TO:

Enquiries Unit

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London, EC4Y 8JX.

It looks as if Citi will take notice if you are having problems and your local trading standards department enquires as to the supply of the copy of the executed agreement.

That however does not address the fact that as listed in legislation the creditor is duty bound to supply the debtor with a copy of the executed agreement - a copy being supplied via a third party does not fulfil the s78 request, epsecially 9 months subsequent to the original request.

I think you will find Enron that The London office will only deal with those directly from the home area.

For those outside London they will need to contact their local TS and ask for them to liase a complaint using the London office by home authority.

I had this spelled out to me in the Capquest and Active KAP sagas.

Dont know if my local one contacted them directly, the response came through them.

For details of your local trading standards search here:

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

Sending customers recent Terms & Conditions or stating that the varied Terms & Conditions sent with statements and new cards fulfil their duty is incorrect.

 

The regulations are specific, in all instances a request for the executed agreement should be accompanied by the varied Terms & Conditions. For purposes of an s78(1) CCA request, if Terms & Conditions are reference in the executed agreement a copy of those original Terms & Conditions should also be included.

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in

 

Therefore in just providing a copy of the Varied Terms & Conditions the s78(1) CCA request remains unfulfilled and goes into default after a period of 12+2 days of receipt by Citi.

Yes, but most are arguing that to comply with section 77-79 requests they simply have to provide you with T&C's as they were at the time you signed and T&Cs as they are now for comparision.

Aparently the definition of a "true copy" doesn't have to include our signatures (which sounds like rubbish to me).

See this letter from Barclaycard Legal Department - they are trying the same rubbish with me:-

http://www.campbellphotographic.co.uk/images/barclaycard0002.jpg

(my whole thread here:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162487-hello-newbie-need-lots-2.html)

Yes, but most are arguing that to comply with section 77-79 requests they simply have to provide you with T&C's as they were at the time you signed and T&Cs as they are now for comparision.

This is a credit card we're talking about.

I have clarification from the OFT which outlines what should be included in response to a CCA request.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

What Citi have attempted to do here is provide a copy of Terms & Conditions from 2007, stating that they are the executed agreement from 1996.

Next stop the ICO with relation to this.

I have clarification from the OFT which outlines what should be included in response to a CCA request.

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

 

What Citi have attempted to do here is provide a copy of Terms & Conditions from 2007, stating that they are the executed agreement from 1996.

 

Next stop the ICO with relation to this.

I'm a newbie just about to start down the long path of CCA requesting but that document you've got there seems a fantastic bit of evidence to support peoples cases. Well done!

Yes they are pretty invaluable, as they indicate what fulfills a request.

Let me know what you get in return to your s78(1) Consumer Credit Act request - it is likely that it will be the same invalid letter that everyone else has received.

Can we report straight to the OFT?

I have loads more letters to do tonight

Citi have screwed me over for 6 years with charges and it's a satisfied default due to expire this year

Hello Enron!

Paul Wilton also posted a handy letter from the Chief Exec of the OFT which I think could do with being formatted and verified and then made into a sticky somewhere.

To save me typing and having to think too hard, below is some bumf I've just written on another Thread to point SB100 to the letter:

======== START OF CUT AND PASTE! =======

I'd also have a read of the following:

Re: Letters from DTI /Oft Regarding CCA1974 Issues - Post #49

...which is a letter from the Chief Executive of the OFT to the MP Sion Simon, regarding CCA Requests. This confirms the OFT think that a CCA Request response must include the Original Terms and the Current Terms (if varied). The OFT also feels that it would be likely that a Court would want to see the Original Agreement...

...where the veracity of the Agreement produced could then be tested before the Court where the onus of proof is on the Creditor.

 

John Fingleton

Chief executive

Office of Fair Trading

21/11/2008

In effect, that's what I and many others on CAG have been saying for ages: only the Original Agreement will do in Court. Before Court, it's entirely correct that in response to a s77-79 CCA Request, the Consumer should be given a true copy of the real Agreement, together with both the Original Terms and the Current Terms (if varied).

======== END OF CUT AND PASTE! =======

Cheers,

BRW

Can we report straight to the OFT?

 

I have loads more letters to do tonight

 

Citi have screwed me over for 6 years with charges and it's a satisfied default due to expire this year

Yes make a complaint, the more complaints there are the more inclined the OFT are to investigate.

Personally if you have a valid arguement that what Citi are doing is wrong i'd be inclined to also get in touch with your MP.

Yes make a complaint, the more complaints there are the more inclined the OFT are to investigate.

 

Personally if you have a valid arguement that what Citi are doing is wrong i'd be inclined to also get in touch with your MP.

Citi messed me up in a big way in 2006 - they would not send me SAR as they wanted proof of my old address.. loads of hassle.. in the end I did not get my SAR off them.

Now, it is too late to get 6 years worth of charges isn't it? The account was defaulted in 2003 :-x:-x

So they have had a Default on my account, plus all the charges (not concerned about the money, I settled the account by paying half)

What do I do?

Is it possible to get all the statements still or not, do I just demand that the Default is removed?

If they were obstructive in fulfilling your SAR, I would consider getting trading standards involved asking for their assistance in getting Citi to comply with your request.

Statute Barred, might be difficult to proceed for a claim against charges unless you have a very good reason - possibly might able to use the reason that the creditor was obstructive in obtaining not supply the documents you requested, but would do a bit of work into this, maybe put a post up in the general section, or search out threads to do with statute barred claims.

Default, if the default was made in 2003 it should drop off your credit file this year - but it doesnt harm add to any potential claim you make.

If they were obstructive in fulfilling your Subject Access Request, I would consider getting trading standards involved asking for their assistance in getting Citi to comply with your request.

 

Statute Barred, might be difficult to proceed for a claim against charges unless you have a very good reason - possibly might able to use the reason that the creditor was obstructive in obtaining not supply the documents you requested, but would do a bit of work into this, maybe put a post up in the general section, or search out threads to do with statute barred claims.

 

Default, if the default was made in 2003 it should drop off your credit file this year - but it doesnt harm add to any potential claim you make.

Many thanks.

I have been onto the Information Commissioners website, and note that you must have hard copies of evidence from the banks etc to back up complaints, I should have all of this by next month and can start then.

I have written a letter to Citi just now to complain, contacted the CRAs regarding them too.

I am not concerned about the charges - stuff them. I do want the Default removed and it isn't due to come off until August. Which is a long time really If it had been in 3 months, I would have forgotten about it.. but no, I don't see why I should. Citi have been worse than any of them. Their charges were worse than Capital Ones!

My Mum in Law is happy for me to complain on her behalf-it`s in the post tomorrow morning, plus to local MP.

I sent them a SAR on 8th Feb.. am I right in thinking it is still 40 days?!

Or was it changed to 30

They cashed the cheque 5 days after receiving SAR but so far no statements, not even a letter of acknowledgement.

Still 40 days, out of interest did you ask for anything like a copy of the executed agreement in your SAR?

Still 40 days, out of interest did you ask for anything like a copy of the executed agreement in your SAR?

No I didn't, just statements etc..

I can't request one anyways because it is a terminated and settled account.

My only dispute is it comprises of massive charges taking me about £400 over the credit limit with charges only.

I want the default removed and am going to claim for the charges back..

Yes, for both my Barclayoan and my credit card.

Nothing back except 6 years statements and a note saying "please find enclosed your statements as requested (?)".

All statements pre May 2004 were sent as a "Gesture of Good Will" because they say they don't have to send anything that is now on microfilm.

see posts here:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/169837-ppi-claim-interest-barclaycard-2.html#post1915528

They're not using the old Micropiche arguement are they, think that this was tackled long ago - your probably best looking up this in Barclays forum and not here.

From memory think Gizmo111 did something regarding this, albeit thats from memory and a couple of years ago.

Just to add that I received the same crap from Citi in the post this morning together with 11 pages of terms and conditions that bear no resemblance to what I signed up to.

Also, when I originally signed up for this card in 2000 (can even tell you the day as I was jet lagged and cornered in a service station coming out of the toilets!!) it was not even for Citi it was for a People card. So I was expecting to receive terms and conditions relating to that company...I assume they aren't weren't the same.

Am going to write back challenging this and putting the account in dispute.

Does anyone have any specific comments that you believe I should add and/or a template letter for OFT...or is it too early to complain??

My link is here for any comments...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/191849-citi-card-cca-received.html

Many thanks...

I would like to know how we go about this as I have just recieved two reponces from Citi or Piti cards as I call them for two credit agreements that I requested back in May last year.

I funny thing is Card #1 was issued by Associates and they have sent me two made up credit agreements with no signitures or copy of the original paperwork I signed.

Card #2 was issued by Citi cards and they have aslo sent me two made up agreements one from Associates and also one from Citi Cards

Do these people not look at what they are doing ? this is a clear case of manipulation and false information.. now if they are playing games then this needs to be reported.

I have attached the covering letters for someone to review please.

Citi Areement Request reply 433.zip

Citi Agreement Request Reply 581.zip

I am supprise that there has benn no further posting to this or has it moved to another Thread?

if so can someone please update me

sub