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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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1st Credit - Citi Card debt - 6 questions!


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Hi,

 

Due to being out of work, I missed payments on my Citicard. I came to an arrangement with Citi but as I missed one payment, I had to ring before 4pm on the 18th and I rang at 5pm, they sent the debt to 1st Credit.

 

They have now been chasing me and after a few phone calls (all whilst I was out at work) have sent me a letter saying that their solicitors are looking at legal action including substantial legal costs, a CCJ and a final charging order. Even a court enforced Order of Sale to legally sell my house! The letter urged me to get in touch.

 

I had heard that you may be able to get your CC debt cleared if the card company cannot provide you with an original T&C document and I am interested in this.

 

When they rang again, I was in for once and took the call. They guy wanted to know lots of details about me, own a house, value, salary etc which I declined to answer. He gave all the threatening jumbo about filing for bankruptcy and 7x the cost being added onto the debt etc and demanded full payment of £1400 in 7 days. I told him I can't afford it but would consider repayments (though I still hope to get the debt cleared by this T&C thing). He said that the solicitors will not consider such a scheme and will only accept full payment.

 

1) Is this true? Sounds very unrealistic to me and scare tactics.

 

2) Would they really be able to get a charge against my house, or get a forced bankruptcy against me, for just a £1400 debt?

 

3) Where can I find the template for the CC T&C letter?

Please provide a link.

 

4) If they are scaring me but WILL Accept monthly payments, should I agree whilst I look into getting the debt wiped off or should I hold back?

 

5) If I should hold back, can the debt agency proceed with action or must they wait for resolution between me and Citi cards regarding the T&C?

 

6) If I am successful in getting the debt wiped out via the T&C thing, is the matter resolved and all reference to the debt is wiped from my file (as it was illegal in the firs place) or will I still get/have a default against me or any other reference to bad debt and that all I will have achieved is that I don't need to repay it.

 

Many thx for your urgent help.

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1) Is this true? Sounds very unrealistic to me and scare tactics.

 

If you own property with equity in it, then it is a very serious threat and needs to be taken that way.

 

2) Would they really be able to get a charge against my house, or get a forced bankruptcy against me, for just a £1400 debt?

 

Yes.

 

3) Where can I find the template for the CC T&C letter?

Please provide a link.

 

It is not really a T&C letter, it is a request for a copy of the agreement under the CCA 1974. The T&Cs are only one small part of this.

 

4) If they are scaring me but WILL Accept monthly payments, should I agree whilst I look into getting the debt wiped off or should I hold back?

 

There is nothing about getting a debt "wiped off". Just send off a CCA request and see what happens.

 

5) If I should hold back, can the debt agency proceed with action or must they wait for resolution between me and Citi cards regarding the T&C?

 

Don't send the CCA request to Citi, send it to the DCA who currently has the account.

 

Yes, they can take court action immediately, but the account will be in dispute by the time the case is heard if there is no enforceable agreement produced.

 

6) If I am successful in getting the debt wiped out via the T&C thing, is the matter resolved and all reference to the debt is wiped from my file (as it was illegal in the firs place) or will I still get/have a default against me or any other reference to bad debt and that all I will have achieved is that I don't need to repay it.

 

Many thx for your urgent help.

 

There is no possibility of getting any debt "wiped out". All the failure to produce an enforceable CCA would do is put the account in dispute, and allow you to suspend payments on it until they did produce an enforceable agreement.

 

The debt would not be "illegal", they would merely be unable to enforce it.

 

There will still be black marks against you with the credit agencies. You will only not have to repay it as long as there is no enforceable CCA. If that lasts longer than six years, the debt will be statute barred and only at that point is the game over.

 

SH

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They guy wanted to know lots of details about me, own a house, value, salary etc which I declined to answer.

Good. Did he go through some security questions to ascertain your identity? In future is they call just tell them that all communication needs to be in writing only and put the phone down.
1) Is this true? Sounds very unrealistic to me and scare tactics.

It's a scare tactic. If a CCJ was granted against you then you could apply for a time order allowing you time to pay based on your ability to be. The court would set the amount that you pay each month, not the creditor. The creditor or their agent are legally obliged to accept any reasonable offer of repayment. Court is supposed to be used as a last resort - not a first resort.

 

2) Would they really be able to get a charge against my house, or get a forced bankruptcy against me, for just a £1400 debt?

 

Only if you didn't pay the CCJ as arranged would they be able to get a charge. Bankruptcy can only be used where the amount is not disputed. Are there any charges on the account Citi normally are very keen to add lots of charges.

 

3) Where can I find the template for the CC T&C letter?

Please provide a link.

 

The CCA letter is here (template N). You need to send it recorded delivery and enclose a 1 pound postal order. Without a complying copy of the credit agreement they can not enforce the account. You seem to have slightly misunderstood what you are asking for. You are not asking for terms and conditions (although this is what Citi may supply you). You are asking for a signed copy of the credit agreement which must contain all the prescribed terms as laid down by the Consumer Credit Act to be legally enforceable.

 

4) If they are scaring me but WILL Accept monthly payments, should I agree whilst I look into getting the debt wiped off or should I hold back?

 

The account is in dispute. If you set up payments and continue to pay them they have no incentive to provide a copy of the agreement.

 

5) If I should hold back, can the debt agency proceed with action or must they wait for resolution between me and Citi cards regarding the T&C?

 

The CCA request should go to Worst Credit - they will then pass on your request to Citi.

 

6) If I am successful in getting the debt wiped out via the T&C thing, is the matter resolved and all reference to the debt is wiped from my file (as it was illegal in the firs place) or will I still get/have a default against me or any other reference to bad debt and that all I will have achieved is that I don't need to repay it.
It's not illegal the agreement is simply unenforceable. The adverse references on your credit file will be difficult to remove as there is no incentive for them to remove them - you are after all not giving them anything in return.

 

You need to carefully consider whether you wish future credit anyway as you may be out of work again at some point in the future. If you took out a credit card now you would not be able to use the 1974 Act to potentially wipe out the debt. Your agreement would fall under the 2006 Act which has removed (although not retrospectively) the statute you are relying on in this case.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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There is no possibility of getting any debt "wiped out".

Really? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/93884-wescot-rbofs-oh-dear.html

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Guys,

 

Thx for the advice thus far but I am confused as I am getting contrasting advice.

 

Scabhunter is saying all that 1st Credit are threatening is very real (and gives me the impression that I can be forced to sell my house/bankruptcy as soon as they wish) yet Rory projects a more reasonable and balanced outlook. That CCJ & attachment of earnings is more realistic and that court action is last resort not first resort.

 

As you can see, Scab has me worried and Rory has me more calm and controlled. Clarification would be much appreciated!

 

In short, as it stands now, can tey really say "payment in 7 days or we charge against your house/file for bankruptcy/sell your house".

 

Thx.

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Guys,

 

Thx for the advice thus far but I am confused as I am getting contrasting advice.

 

Scabhunter is saying all that 1st Credit are threatening is very real (and gives me the impression that I can be forced to sell my house/bankruptcy as soon as they wish) yet Rory projects a more reasonable and balanced outlook. That CCJ & attachment of earnings is more realistic and that court action is last resort not first resort.

 

As you can see, Scab has me worried and Rory has me more calm and controlled. Clarification would be much appreciated!

 

In short, as it stands now, can tey really say "payment in 7 days or we charge against your house/file for bankruptcy/sell your house".

 

Thx.

 

No, all I said was that the threat needs to be taken seriously. If you are a property owner, there is a genuine risk. I never meant to imply that it could happen overnight.

 

The "payment in 7 days" drivel is just a scare tactic.

 

Charging Orders should not be granted unless there is a CCJ and you default on it. Even then it is rare for the property to be sold.

 

With bankruptcy they are allowed to petition for it for anything over £700. It is very unlikely that they will.

 

Apologies for giving the impression that matters are worse than they really are. It was certainly not intended.

 

SH

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Scab,

 

Thanks for that - a weight has been lifted. Can you give me an idea as to what the situation is *really* like?

 

Ie: where do I stand? Is it as I thought - that they just want to come to an arrangement to pay back? What will they realistically accept? If they push the scare tactics is it wise for me to call them on it, citing what you have said above?

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Although DCA behaviour is often predictable, sometimes they can go off on wild tangents.

 

1st Credit is one which uses [EDIT] the Statutory Demand. [EDIT]

 

Judges are not exactly keen on this, and many of these Statutory Demands are set aside with costs awarded. There are many threads on here of this happening.

 

It does have to be mentioned though that pushing someone into bankruptcy is not impossible, if the debt is larger than £750, and the debtor owns property with significant equity. It IS a risk that has to be taken seriously.

 

If the alleged debt here is £1400, then the risk is very minimal indeed, because it would cost them nearly that much to collect on the debt!

 

If they do issue one of their crazy Statutory Demands, it will almost certainly be frivolous, and an abuse of process. If it does come to that, there are people here who can help you.

 

Most of the threatening behaviour of DCAs is just bluff. Often they don't even have any legal right to carry out what they threaten anyway.

 

The first step here is to ask for a copy of the CCA agreement. Without it, they cannot legally enforce the alleged debt.

 

They have 12+2 working days to comply with the request. After that, they are in default, and you are quite within your rights to stop paying them.

 

If they cannot produce the agreement, that puts you in a great position if you want to negotiate a full and final settlement. You can, of course, pay them nothing. Then, the risk is that if they do eventually come up with the agreement, they can press you to pay in full again. Only after six years of no payment or acknowledgement of the debt in writing does it become statute barred and unenforceable for ever.

 

They have the right to go to court to get a County Court Judgment. If they get this, then the statute barring will never apply. The court will order you to pay what you can afford and no more. Courts are not there to persecute debtors.

 

More often than not courts will order you to pay far less than any DCA would have been demanding.

 

Of course the lack of an enforceable agreement is, or at least should be, a complete defence against a court judgment anyway.

 

If they do come up with an enforceable agreement, make a reasonable offer to pay monthly. The DCA will know that they would not get any more if they went to court, and they may well get less.

 

The charging order on your house could only happen if they got the CCJ and you defaulted on it. Even then, the courts rarely order the property to be sold.

 

Well done for not caving in and answering the questions on the telephone. They have no right to this information. A court can order you to disclose these things if a CCJ is awarded, but a DCA has no rights. When you ask for your CCA, they will get another message that you are not one of the usual pushovers, and that you know something about your legal rights.

 

Their whole attitude changes once they realise they have no legal right to collect. Of course, in many cases the automatic threat letters are still churned out by the machine but they are totally meaningless.

 

Send off the CCA request and take it one step at a time.

 

Another factor you might want to think about is the level of unlawful charges on the card. It doesn't sound from what you say as though that will be too high, but only you know for sure. That might be another way of challenging the alleged debt if the agreement did show up.

 

SH

Edited by alanfromderby
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Here is the letter to send. Send it Special Delivery if you can.

 

Enclose a £1 postal order. No cheques. Don't sign the letter. We don't want the signature getting into the wrong hands.

 

Your street

 

District

County

Postcode

 

DATE

 

 

The Bank

Street

District

County

Postcode

 

I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY NOR ANY COMPANY YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

With reference to the above agreement, I require that you provide me a true copy of the credit agreement

 

I am aware that section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with my request and quote “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it” For clarification I require a copy of the agreement, any terms and conditions from the time when the agreement was executed together with a copy of current terms and conditions and a copy of the cancellation notice if the agreement refers to “Your Right to Cancel” within it. I also require a statement of account as laid out also within Section 78(1).if there weren’t any terms and conditions then please confirm this in your response

 

I am entitled to receive the information on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00, which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Please note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

I note that section 172 outlines that statements by creditors are binding where made under inter alia section 78(1) and I take this to be that any reply made in response to this request is binding upon you. Therefore you should ensure that all documents request are supplied. Any missing documents will be considered not part of the agreement and could therefore affect the enforceability of anything you send.

 

I understand that Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) at regulation 2 sets out the required time frame for compliance with this request as being 12 working days from receipt

 

 

Should you fail to comply with my request as outlined above, I shall consider the account in dispute. I am aware that where a creditor fails to supply the requested information the creditors rights to enforcement are restricted until such time as they comply. I am also aware that there are certain terms that are required to be within the “Agreement” and should these terms be mis-stated or not present the agreement can be rendered unenforceable in law.

 

Notwithstanding the above, I note that the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) at Regulation 3 allows the Signature box and signature to be omitted in a copy document but the copy document must contain all the terms off the agreement contained within the signed executed original document

 

I respectfully request that you provide a copy of the original agreement signed by myself that you hold on file and while I accept that you can omit the signature box for the purposes of compliance with my request, you will be aware that any challenge to the agreement in court would require the signed copy of the original agreement. If you still reject this, please provide clarification on the status of the Original Credit Agreement and confirm either that you hold the original signed agreement on file or a copy of it on microfliche or that you no longer hold the file

 

Also please provide details of who I may address a subject access request to under the Data Protection Act 1998 section 7 so that I may obtain a copy of the original agreement should you fail to forward a copy in respect of this request

 

Therefore I look forward to receiving this information within the time frames as indicated above

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

SH

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Thank you ever so much! I will get the letter sent off in the next day or so and will keep you informed and as all this is new to me, I would really appreciate it if you would keep an eye on my thread and check back every so often to offer advice and feedback.

 

 

Just 2 quick questions which may have been missed:

 

1) Should I try to make an arrangement to pay (even though they said they will only give me 7 days to pay up in full) or should I await for the 12+2 days to pass for the CCA?

 

2) All of the info both of you have provided would put a DCA in it's place with regards to their scare tactics and their rather uneconomical use of the truth. As they are being quite hostile, and unwilling to cooperate, is it wise to "call" them on things if they keep pushing?

 

On one hand I don't want to make them mad and be bloody minded but on the other, letting them know what you have said about charging orders only applying if I default on a CCJ enforced repayment; Statutory Demands & judges taking a dim view; the ineffective cost of pushing for bankruptcy etc should make my position stronger in these negotiations and let them know that I am not a push over.

 

Thx

Edited by 1mper1um
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Thank you ever so much! I will get the letter sent off in the next day or so and will keep you informed and as all this is new to me, I would really appreciate it if you would keep an eye on my thread and check back every so often to offer advice and feedback.

 

 

Just 2 quick questions which may have been missed:

 

1) Should I try to make an arrangement to pay (even though they said they will only give me 7 days to pay up in full) or should I await for the 12+2 days to pass for the CCA? No do not offer anything yet wait for them to comply with your lawful request

 

2) All of the info both of you have provided would put a DCA in it's place with regards to their scare tactics and their rather uneconomical use of the truth. As they are being quite hostile, and unwilling to cooperate, is it wise to "call" them on things if they keep pushing? Never Ever Phone these cretins, this is what they want they can then say anything they want with little fear that you can prove their version of events, get everything in writing, only phone if you can record the call and are confident that you can cope with theit b*lsh*t

 

On one hand I don't want to make them mad and be bloody minded but on the other, letting them know what you have said about charging orders only applying if I default on a CCJ enforced repayment; Statutory Demands & judges taking a dim view; the ineffective cost of pushing for bankruptcy etc should make my position stronger in these negotiations and let them know that I am not a push over.

 

By requesting a CCA you are following a lawful process if this makes them mad and bloodyminded then they should not be in this business

Thx

 

PGH7447:)

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Thx.

 

A quick update and again, I need your help. Having ordered my credit report, I have noted that this debt has been awarded a default TWICE. Once by Citi for £1156 and once by 1st Credit, upon receiving the account, for £1483.

 

I have been told that one of these is in error as you cannot be defaulted twice like this. However, neither Citi or 1st Credit is accepting they have acted in error. What do I do now to get one of these defaults removed?

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You start by making a complaint in writing to the CRA's who are showing two defaults on the same account.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 1 month later...

Thx Rory,

 

Well it has been well over 14 days - over a month in fact - and they have not got back to me regarding my CCA request so can you tell me where I stand now?

 

If they start to ring me again, what do I say? Do I just keep asking for the original copy of the agreement under the CCA or have they missed their chance by not replying within 14 days?

 

Cheers!

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If they start to ring me again, what do I say?

Don't answer their security questions. Inform them everything should be in writing only, then put the phone down.

 

Well it has been well over 14 days - over a month in fact - and they have not got back to me regarding my CCA request so can you tell me where I stand now?

Are you withholding payments? Currently you don't have to do anything unless they start asking for payment. The account is currently in default which means that they can not enforce the account until they supply a compliant copy of the agreement containing all the necessary prescribed terms and signed by you.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi guys, thx for the replies.

 

I am currently not making any payments at all.

 

 

Currently you don't have to do anything unless they start asking for payment.

This sounded quite ominous - though I don't think you intended it to be. Can you clarify just exactly what you mean I have to do if they do ask for payment?

 

 

 

tell that they are in default because they have not complied with your CCA request. They would have been in default 12 full working days after they received your request.

This 14 day period is what I was asking about in my previous post. Just what does it mean - them being in default? Does it mean their time has passed and they cannot enforce anything even if they now get the CCA agreement?

 

Does the 12+2 days mean anything at all or is it meaningless?

 

Thx.

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1mper1um - your situation with 1st Cretins sounds similar to mine, I couldn't afford to pay my Citi Card in 2006, so wrote asking if I could make reduced payments, they eventually agreed and stopped adding interest and charges, I offered them a F&F settlement around summer this year and they ignored it and sold or assigned my account to 1st Cretins, when I received my first letter from 1st, I sent the CCA request to them with the appropriate fee, they have yet to forward me anything that looks like an enforceable agreement, in fact they haven't sent me anything at all except threatening letters. I emailed them and told them I would only communicate in writing and I would not be making any payments to them until such time as they could provide a copy of my agreement, they replied that they had requested this from Citi. Upon my return from holiday in October I received a statutory demand from 1st Cretins, the first step to bankruptcy, and I admit I was really worried, however I took the advice from people on this site, approached my local court, swore an affadavit which stated 1st had not complied with my request and asked for a set aside hearing, which was duly granted, I also asked for costs, a copy of which I faxed to the court and sent special delivery to 1st a day or so prior to the hearing, I had in the interirm received a letter from 1st's solicitors stating they had advised the court they wouldn't be attending and also wouldn't contest a set aside, however I went to court on the day and got my set aside and my costs awarded, which 1st paid up a week or so later. Since then i've heard didly squat from them. I haven't paid 1st a penny and nor will I until they can prove they can collect on this debt.

 

If you have sent of a CCA request and the 12 + 2 days are up and 1st haven't sent you a copy of your agreement, you don't need to do anything until you hear from them further.

 

when you do, post up on here what they have sent you and I'm sure you'll get the answers you need.

 

Most importantly, don't worry you are in the right place now to get the help and advice you need.

 

Good luck :)

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Can you clarify just exactly what you mean I have to do if they do ask for payment?

 

You then send them a letter basically telling the to sod off and that you are making complaints about them to TS and the OFT and would like a copy of their complaints procedure as well.

 

This 14 day period is what I was asking about in my previous post. Just what does it mean - them being in default? Does it mean their time has passed and they cannot enforce anything even if they now get the CCA agreement?

 

Does the 12+2 days mean anything at all or is it meaningless?

The +2 days only come into play if you didn't send it recorded delivery as this is the number of days allowed for delivery - so in most peoples cases it's irrelevant as they sent it recorded delivery.

 

Once they receive your request they then have 12 full working days to supply the agreement. After these 12 working days are up they can not enforce the agreement until a compliant copy of the agreement is produced. This means that they can not ask for payment and you can withhold payments to the account. Once a compliant copy of the agreement is produced the agreement can once again be enforced.

 

Normally if they can't put there hands on a copy of the agreement fairly quickly then there isn't one. Also you should not that in order to once again enforce the agreement any copy supplied must contain the prescribed terms and your signature. Many agreements do not contain the prescribed terms so are unenfoorceable on the debtor.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Does the 12+2 days mean anything at all? From what Rory said, it appears to be meaningless if they do manage to get a copy of the CCA. If this is so, what is the reason behind giving them 12+2 days?

 

If they produce a copy agreement which complies with the Act they can enforce the agreement (even if it is months later). Until they do, they are stuffed. The 12+2 time limit is to ensure that they deal with the S78 request quickly. Normally, they would produce the documents fairly promptly if they had them.

 

Be aware that Citi are currently spouting some b*llsh*t about supplying current T&Cs being sufficient compliance with a S78 request. If they are going to take you to court, (which they would need to do if they wanted a CCJ/Charging Order/Sale of Property etc.) they will need to produce the original agreement with all prescribed terms and legible.

 

You are now in a poker game - do not blink. Whilst they cannot/will not produce a legible, compliant CCA agreement they are powerless. They will rant, rave, scream, throw their teddies about and generally sulk. They rely on you not knowing your rights - you are here at CAG - you are currently calling the shots.

 

If they produce anything, post it up here for us to pick apart.

 

How old is your Citi 'agreement' and was it originally with Citi or was it one they bought up?

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Hi guys, thx for the replies.

 

I am currently not making any payments at all.

 

 

 

This sounded quite ominous - though I don't think you intended it to be. Can you clarify just exactly what you mean I have to do if they do ask for payment?

 

 

 

 

This 14 day period is what I was asking about in my previous post. Just what does it mean - them being in default? Does it mean their time has passed and they cannot enforce anything even if they now get the CCA agreement?

 

Does the 12+2 days mean anything at all or is it meaningless?

 

Thx.

 

12 working days is the statutory time they have to respond. If they go past this time they are in default as they have failed to comply with your request. Whilst they are in default they are not entitled to enforce the account (this doesn't usually stop them trying, though).

 

Once they have responded in full (however late that is) they are no longer in default - as long as they produce a valid agreement, that is;) The older your account, the less likely it is that they will be able to produce an enforceable agreement.

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  • 2 years later...

Hello,

 

In 2008 I sent a letter based on your template to 1st Credit asking for them to provide a copy of my credit agreement with Citi if they wanted me to pay my debt. They went quiet until today. Today they sent a batch of Ts & Cs but interestingly there is no dotted line with my signature on. Let me tell you what I have.

 

The paperwork opens with this covering letter:

"We attach a 'true copy' of the relevant agreement which fulfils our obligations under Section 77/78 f the Consumer Credit Act. We require you contact us within 14 days to arrange payment of yor outstanding account. If you do not make contact with this office, we will have no option but to consider legal proceedings against you. If successful it may result in:

 

Substantial legal costs and interest being charged thereafter

Entry of your name in the County Court Register of Judgements, order & Fines making it very difficult to get credit in the future.

 

Subsequent failure to make payment could result in enforcement action:

 

An application to your employer for an attachment of earnings

Seizure of your assets by a County Court Bailiff

A charging order against your property.

 

If you are not resident in England or Wales legal/enforcement action will be in strict accordance with the laws relating to the country of your residence.

 

If you believe there are any inconsistencies with the document we have provided then we require you confirm this in writing. Pleasse be assured the matter will be investigated immediately".

The next 15 sheets is titled: "Credit Card Agreemet regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974" and is subheaded with "this is a copy ofyour agreement for you to keep. It includes a notice about your cancellation rights, which you should read".

It then states it's an agreement between Citi Financial (plus their address) and my name (plus my address). These pages talk about right to cancel, lost/stolen card procedure, missing payments, balance transfers etc.

 

But there is nothing within these 15 sheets that shows a signature by me or any form of acceptance.

 

 

The next batch of pages is titled: "Credit Agreement regulated by teh Consumer Credit Act 1974", again lists Citi Financial as the creditor and me as the debtor, and it covers very similar things as the other agreement, except this one lists the interest rates as well.

 

Again, there is nothing with my signature on at all. All these two agreements amount to is just blanket Ts & Cs. My name only appears in type at the top of each agreement and from what I recall when I sent the original letter asking for copies or a cease in debt collection, they needed to provide me with paperwork I had signed to confirm this. and they haven't done this. Please can you advise if I am correct and what I should do next?

 

Many thanks in advance.

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It sounds like they've sent you a reconstituted agreement in response to your request; which they can do..... but it's not enforceable in court.

 

A suggested reply..... by rec. delivery....

 

I do not acknowledge any debt your company.

 

A legal request for a true copy of my alleged Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974) was sent your offices on xx/xx/xx. Your recent correspondence however, refers to a generic type of document with no signature pertaining to myself at all.

 

As you are no doubt aware, you would need to have an original document in your possession before making some of threats mentioned in the body of your letter; courtesy of The Consumer Credit Act 1974; sec 127(3). I would therefore be grateful if you could confirm whether you currently hold, or have ever held, a properly executed, signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008 and if not, to confirm so in your response.

 

Many thanks,

 

:-)

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