Hi folks. Ive spend days looking through all the various threads on this site, each time i come across another more interesting and informative. Along the way though I have become a little confused and to say the least have had a few headaches!

Basically..I had a credit card agreement with Mint (The Royal Bank Of Scotland). I managed this account perfectly for several years until in 2006 I over commited with other lenders and found that I was struggling financially with the repayments. I tried getting a consolidation loan but was refused left right and centre as I was nearing my credit limit on everything and my salary was not all that great. I plodded along with my contractual payments, just leaving myself skint then out of the blue I was contacted by a debt management company who offered to manage my debts for me bla bla bla, I make payments that i could afford etc etc. I agreed to this and each creditor was made an offer of repayment. All of which agreed and I had no problems. Mint agreed also although defaulted me, on the basis that 'to accept the reduced payment' they'd have to terminate the account, which meant defaulting the account.

I didnt know this at the time and wasnt even sure if i got the default.

Anyway, I sent the 'I didnt get the default notice' letter which has just expired (with no reply from Mint). I was now wondering what to do next? Id go to any length to remove the default, however annoying I might be to them. My plan was to send a similar letter (with a copy of the last) and give a further ?? days to respond. Im not convinced this will work though.

I have read threads on requesting a copy of the original contract - if they could not provide it then I could write to the credit reference agencies to try and get it removed based on lack of evidence?

Or, requesting a SAR (or SARN)...what will this show, and what would i do with this?

Also I have read about sending them a letter challenging them to the Data Protection Act - is this a S10/12 notice?

And i have read about sending them a letter asking for any charges back (which i think is only 1 to 3 charges) and asking within that letter to remove the defalt based on the default being inaccurate - is this a LBA letter?

Theres just so many things I have read its its all getting so confusing!!! Can somebody possibly help or point me in the right direction. If you need to know anything further about my particular case then please feel free to reply to this thread.

thanks in advance

I think the first thing to do is send them a CCA request - I am not sure about how good Mint are at supplying copy agreements. I have to say that all my cards defaulted me when I set up the reduced payment plan, however whilst it makes life a bit more difficult there are mortgage lenders who will pay no attention to credit card defaults, especially when they are more than 12 months old.

As you say there are many other actions you could take, but I would suggest finding out if they have the right to enforce the debt first. Getting the default removed is not easy - I haven't even bothered apart from one card who between them and the DCA had put four defaults on my credit file for the same debt:mad:

I guess there is some merit in the charges being included in the default amount, but again that is probably going to involve going to court over it.

Hopefully you will get other advice too, but that's my first thought. Are you sure none of the others have defaulted you?

Hi, thanks for your speedy reply. A CCA request, is that where I just ask for a copy of my contract (is there anything else? Does that stand for Consumer Credit Agreement?) With the amount of abbreviations going around its gets a little confusing for me at times!! Duh!! Thats interesting to know about the mortgage lenders and not paying too much attention to credit card defaults..I wonder why that is?

Yes im absolutely sure no one else defaulted me. My Barclay Card is perfect, the only one that is a bit rough around the edges is a bank loan with Lloyds but thats a long story and im in the process of sorting that out (their error not mine). Basically they offered me a refinanced loan which I agreed to (which would replace the existing loan) however they failed to set it up so offered me a 'special repayment plan' which, on looking at my credit report, gives the impression I have missed payments as the special payemnt plan is based still on the original loan agreement. I know I can get out of that one though as I have a strong case and a paper trail of my letters, calls, complaints, the works. But yeah, no other defaults.

Kim

Letter 'N' from this lot. Other letters in there that may be of use.

You need to send £1 with it - postal order and send recorded - do not sign the letter. There have been rumours of cutting and pasting going on.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Letter 'N' from this lot. Other letters in there that may be of use.

 

You need to send £1 with it - postal order and send recorded - do not sign the letter. There have been rumours of cutting and pasting going on.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Thanks gold lady,

I have this morning, in reply to my letter requesting a copy of the 'signed true and certified copy of the default notice', received a letter saying that 'there is no legal requirement to provide me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice' but they have in-place provided me with a copy of my original signed loan agreement...so now no need for me to send that letter.

So, I suppose now I should send a SARN? I have been told that if my SARN includes a note to say a default warning letter HAD been issued that im at a dead end with this, however if this does not include these important notes, that I can request the default to be removed and if necessary involve the Information Commisioners Officer. Is that correct that if the SARN does include these notes that im stuffed?

Many thanks, Kim

Are you sure you are at a dead end? Is it an enforceable agreement? Is there any way you can scan it, remove all personal details, and post it on here so the experts can pull it apart. Focus on that before we look at the default notice issue as the non-validity of the CCA is your best weapon. I was going to put invalidity but that looked wrong:o

Are you sure you are at a dead end? Is it an enforceable agreement? Is there any way you can scan it, remove all personal details, and post it on here so the experts can pull it apart. Focus on that before we look at the default notice issue as the non-validity of the CCA is your best weapon. I was going to put invalidity but that looked wrong:o

I have just realised that they havent sent me a signed credit agreement at all..they've sent me a signed APPLICATION FORM, a freshly printed credit agreement (which is clearly not the original) neither is it signed, it is just a replica of what the original is. Cheeky bas*ards!

I havent got a scanner here at home but im off to a friends later so i'll try and scan the documents there. I have drafted a letter to Mint which I was thinking of sending, what do you think?

Thank you for your letter dated 23rd May 2008.

My letter dated 23rd May 2008 specifically requested a true copy of the agreement and a signed true and certified copy of the original Default notice. You have supplied me with neither, just a useless signed application form, a copy of my latest statement (that I did not request) plus a screen print of RBS Advanta Internet Application, whatever that is.

I have copied and pasted extracts from the Consumer Credit Act and as you will see, you are required to provide me with a copy of the original loan credit agreement and Default notice. Again I stipulate that if you cannot provide these documents that you substantiate this data immediately.

I am also still not satisfied that Mint has followed the necessary procedure when issuing the Default against my name so I would like to request my SARN too, including my Data Subject Information which shows all past correspondence.

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 you are required to supply me this Subject Access Request (SARN). I enclose the maximum cost of £10 for the information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

I would take out the word 'useless' just incase you do have to refer to this letter in court at a later date:cool: Is the credit limit on the freshly printed one your current credit limit and not the one when you first got the card? I have had one like that where the original limit was about £1500 and their re-created one shows the limit as £10K....

I would take out the word 'useless' just incase you do have to refer to this letter in court at a later date:cool: Is the credit limit on the freshly printed one your current credit limit and not the one when you first got the card? I have had one like that where the original limit was about £1500 and their re-created one shows the limit as £10K....

Yes, you're right, maybe I should! Just very annoyed ha ha!!

Ah good point, it IS different. When I first took out the card it was amount 'a' then I asked for them to increase it to 'b' but when I defaulted on payments they reduced my credit limit to 'c' . In their print out they have put credit limit 'c' therefore not the same as when i applied.

Does this improve things for me do you think?

I didnt get round to scanning my documents for all to see, but will try to do so when I can get access to a scanner. But if you think you know any other parts that may differ let me know and i'll check.

Hi, lil old me.

I'll ask a Mod to move this thread to the RBS Forum.

Regards.

Scott.

Hi, lil old me.

 

I'll ask a Mod to move this thread to the RBS Forum.

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Ok thank you. Will Goldlady be able to find it again, she's been very helpful?

Ok thank you. Will Goldlady be able to find it again, she's been very helpful?

Yes, she will find you no problem

You'll be in her subscribed threads

Regards.

Scott.

Yes, she will find you no problem

 

You'll be in her subscribed threads

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Cheers

Moved to RBS forum.

Just to say I am still onto your thread:D. Been out all day trying to find a home for our caravan so we can get away from it all in the summer, assuming we have one...

Just to say I am still onto your thread:D. Been out all day trying to find a home for our caravan so we can get away from it all in the summer, assuming we have one...

Thanks! Sounds lovely..hope we have a summer this year too!

Sounds like you are in a similar situation to myself.

I had a copy of my RBS Advanta application form come through, which missed prescribed terms namely a credit limit was not listed and there were no specific cancellation terms present or account charges listed.

So effectively the alleged debt is unenforceable under law.

They also sent an additional document puporting to be an agreement which I had never seen beforehand, and includes the current credit limit along with current default charges. So definately not an executed agreement.

If the balance at which you were defaulted includes penalty charges of any nature, you should be able to get the default removed on the basis that the data recorded is unlawful and unfair to you.

Sounds like you are in a similar situation to myself.

 

I had a copy of my RBS Advanta application form come through, which missed prescribed terms namely a credit limit was not listed and there were no specific cancellation terms present or account charges listed.

 

So effectively the alleged debt is unenforceable under law.

 

They also sent an additional document puporting to be an agreement which I had never seen beforehand, and includes the current credit limit along with current default charges. So definately not an executed agreement.

 

If the balance at which you were defaulted includes penalty charges of any nature, you should be able to get the default removed on the basis that the data recorded is unlawful and unfair to you.

The document that they provided which has my signature, which I think is the application form does happen to have a credit limit showing, although it does not have specific cancellation instructions, as yours doesnt. Surely they cannot enforce a debt based on only the application form anyway..that purely means I APPLIED for credit!

The default amount includes one late payment charge and thats all - still making the agreement inaccurate I believe. Mint are little gits, I paid in October 2006, missed November and December and by January they had defaulted my account. The REALLY annoying thing is that I went through a debt management programme and started making payments to them starting from November 2006 so technically I made a payment every calendar month..it was just the DMP who was responsible for the late payment etc. I have written to Mint to explain this, and have also sent a complaint to the DMP.

Don't think that the banks really care, they follow procedure and thats the end of the story.

If you went to court then you should be able to get the default removed because of the inclusion of the unlawful penalty charge.

Someone drew of a POC for doing this, let me know if you want it and i'll dig out what I read yesterday on it.

Here you go:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/146805-how-file-court-removal.html

This should be of help, fee wise though i'm not sure of how much it would be to submit this claim.

Submitting the draft order at the same time as your allocation questionnaire would be beneficial, if a judge was minded to adopt it - RBS would be reluctant in the extreme to comply which would wipe out their defence.

Hi guys,

You might remember that i sent the letter below:

Thank you for your letter dated 23rd May 2008.

My letter dated 23rd May 2008 specifically requested a true copy of the agreement and a signed true and certified copy of the original Default notice. You have supplied me with neither, just a signed application form, a copy of my latest statement (that I did not request) plus a screen print of RBS Advanta Internet Application, whatever that is.

I have copied and pasted extracts from the Consumer Credit Act and as you will see, you are required to provide me with a copy of the original loan credit agreement and Default notice. Again I stipulate that if you cannot provide these documents that you substantiate this data immediately.

I am also still not satisfied that Mint has followed the necessary procedure when issuing the Default against my name so I would like to request my SARN too, including my Data Subject Information which shows all past correspondence.

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 you are required to supply me this Subject Access Request (SARN). I enclose the maximum cost of £10 for the information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

Anyway I was about to sent them a reminder today as they have 40 days to comply and its nearing for 40 days, however to my surprise i got a reply this morning. The reply is as follows:

DATA PROTECTIONS ACT 1998 - SUBJECT ACCESS RESPONSE

We enclose details of your personal date held by Mint Card Services and registered under the Data Protection Act 1998. These details are provided in response to your recent request made under the terms of the Act and were located using the information contained in your request.

Notification of 'default information' on your card account to Credit Reference Agencies was carried out in accordance with long established procedured. Details of these procedures are contained in the credit agreement and have been notified to the Information Commisioners Office. We are satisfied that the default on your account was properly notified to the Credit Reference Agencies. If you disagree, you have the right to apply to the court to have inaccurate personal data rectified, blocked, erased, or destroyed. Further information is available from the Information commissioner's website: Information Commissioner's Office - ICO.

On this occasion I can confirm that we have been unable to obtain a copy of your original signed agreement.

Manual Intervention

When items are presented for payment and covering funds are not available, manual intervention does not normally take place. However, if it does, it is part of a routing procedure and we are not required to make any record or note of action that was adpoted. Therefore, no notes relating to manual intervention would exist. If you have any problems please do not hesitate to contact me at the above address.

Now then. They have not removed the default notice but I believe that they have left a window of opportunity for me to argue this case - and believe that I would (with the know how) have a strong case to get this crap off of my account.

Please, can someone advise me the best route to now take?

My personal arguement with them is that 'Notification of 'default information' on your card account to Credit Reference Agencies was carried out in accordance with long established procedures. Details of these procedured are contained in the credit agreement and have been notified to the Information Commissioner's Office'' is completely irrelevant if they have no contract to hold me to. They are refering to a contract which does not exist. And because they are 'long established procedures' should be completely ruled out if I dont have a valid contract..so bloody what if they have been doing this for a long time!

When a contract is signed, the person who is making the application is agreeing for the creditor to disclose and share data about them to CRA's...ummm...surely then, the fact that they have no contract for me means that I have not given permission for data to be processed about me??

As well, could I go straight to the CRA's with this and say remove it you b*stard?

(Just to say as well as everything else, they also still have not provided me with a true copy of the default, nor does it mention anything about defaulting me in the paperwork they sent me)

Any info, advice or experiance would be greatly appreciated.

I got the exact same letter as you did, they supposed to send you MI documents and a copy of the default notice. They haven't fully complied with your request, report them to ICO

i'll be complaining to the ICO about MINT and do contact the CRA about the default and have it removed

On this occasion I can confirm that we have been unable to obtain a copy of your original signed agreement.

mentioned the same thing in my letter, i wonder what the "agreement" they sent me is???

I got the exact same letter as you did, they supposed to send you MI documents and a copy of the default notice. They haven't fully complied with your request, report them to Information Commissioners Office

 

i'll be complaining to the Information Commissioners Office about MINT and do contact the CRA about the default and have it removed

 

 

 

mentioned the same thing in my letter, i wonder what the "agreement" they sent me is???

Hi Helios,

I think what they have sent us will benefit us long term as we have it in black and white that they are unable to provide a CCA, therefore it is unenforceable without a court order.

My plan is to go to the ICO eventually but for now I have replied to Mint quoting statements from the ICO website to remind them that what they are doing is wrong - I am hoping this will be enough to get them to remove the default but if this isnt, then I will write to the ICO.

In the meantime, I have e-mailed Credit Expert stating that I dispute the information and I got a reply to say that they will be in touch with Mint soon to confirm what I am saying - they have added a notice to my defaulted account to say that it is currently in dispute.

I would have gone straight to the ICO but I am scared that if I used my big guns now, that should it fail me, I will have even less options available to me. I know what I am doing will take longer but I am prepared to wait so at least I know I have explored all options.

To be perfectly honest, I really, really, cannot ever remember signing a contract with Mint...I just remember signing the application form and then my card coming through. Keep in touch with your progress - I will too. Good luck mate!!

You might remember I e-mailed Credit Expert about my dispute with Mint? Well I've checked my e-mails today and have had a reply from Credit Expert stating the following:

Further to our recent correspondence, I have been contacted by Mint. They have confirmed that the details we hold are accurate and have requested that we retain the information on our database. Unfortunately I am unable to amend this information without the authorisation of the company in question.

The 'Notice of Dispute' will remain on your report for 28 days. It will then be removed, unless I receive further notification from you:

"THE CONSUMER HAS DISPUTED THE ACCURACY OF THIS ENTRY AND WE HAVE THEREFORE ASKED THE PROVIDER TO INVESTIGATE IT. GIVEN THAT THIS DATA IS DISPUTED, PLEASE TAKE CARE IF MAKING AN ASSESSMENT OF ANY KIND THAT MAY INCLUDE THIS DATA."

If you have any further queries or wish to discuss this further, may I suggest you contact the company concerned direct at the following address:

Mint, CRA Enquiries, Credit Card Operations Centre, PO Box 6050, Southend on Sea, SS99 1WL

Kind regards

Mr Simon Malbon

Consultant Consumer Service Officer

Client Queries

Im really hacked off about this as my last correspondence with Mint was on 15th July and they have not written back to me yet but have got back to Credit Expert. Im just as annoyed as I have been writing to Lloyds about other issues (their fault) and my last letter to them was 2nd July, following my letter 1th June as THEY didnt reply either - can these banks just not be arsed or something? Aaaaargh

Am I correct in saying that if they have 28 days to get back to me with an answer, otherwise they have to remove the information?

Im confident that I have the upper hand here, despite their contact with Credit Expert saying they will not remove it, I just dont want to involve the ICO if I can help it..I was *hoping* that I wouldnt have to but perhaps I may have to? Suggestions folks?

in similar boat. Just realised today I was given a default on my credit notes (Expedia) by Mint end of July. This is my only ever default so am somehwat annoyed to say the least.

I also have cca'd and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d Mint and received the usual mock-up / application - the SAR resulted in some statements and some notes. Nothing from before 2007 and no agreements or anything. (it was RBS Advanta I applied for originally not Mint!!)

What I cannot understand is whether Mint should have sent me something other than a letter 'default notice' - stating I had x days to pay. Should they have sent a letter saying 'time up and you've failed to pay x amount so we will default you'???

Have today sent letter to complain to Mint stating remove (50% iof amoutn due is penalty charges) default and also to Expedia.

What else can be done - and what, as in your case lil ol me, can actually be done if Mint refuse?! Is it worth complaining to FOS or Information Commissioners Office? I have heard the ICO are pretty useless with this issue?

Does a default now mean Barclays will not allow me to remortgage next summer?!!