Hi Everyone, this is my first post and I am hoping that can get some useful advice. This is a long story going back almost 6 years, I live in Scotland so dont know if anything is differant to being in England, I split up with my ex about 6 years ago at the time we had a personal loan with Clydedale bank this was in joint names with his being the first on the agreement, when we split up I asked the bank to split the loan down the middle to allow us to pay individually. They refused to do this, I moved out of the marital home, he stayed with the two children. He had other personal debts, he started getting harassment from Jeremy Sutcliffe Solicitors via letters acting on behalf of the bank. He sought advice from a local council money advisory service, they negotiated with jeremy sutcliffe a payment of £10 per month, a pitiful amount but this was what was agreed. He has been getting constant phonecalls and letters from them for the past 6 years, they are very cheeky stating that he spend too much on phone, gas and even on his 12 year old daughter. They send letters stating that as he has failed to reach an agreement and unless he phones them to discuss the issue they will be going for a decree and have also told him that they can take his house (which is mortgaged) even though he has never missed a payment. I have never heard anything from them but this is obviously as they have their claws into him. He is now at the end of his tether, can't sleep, is drinking, he is willing to pay a bit more each month but feels that this will only keep them at bay for a little while and they will start hassling him again. They are looking for £245 per month, I cant remember how much the original loan was for as during the split the original paperwork was lost, but they now say the amount outstanding is £13,500. He has provided them with a financial statement of all that he pays out but they query everything and are basically saying that he is lying. Neither of us are in a position to pay £245 per month. How can he come to a binding arrangement that will get them off his back and not onto mine, can they take to court if he has stuck to the agreement, not in a position to pay off £13,500 in one go. Has anyone heard of Jeremy Sutcliffe are they solicitors or are they a debt collection agency that would have purchsed this debt from Clydesdale bank?

Hi:)

I'm sure someone wil be along with some sound advise soon

I can tell you that Sutcliffe are in house solicitors for Yorkshire/Clydesdale bank

I am sorry to hear about what they are doing to you both, they really are just lowlife bullies. I personally would start to turn the tables and make them do some proving now, and earn their money.

Use the template letters on here and ask for a copy of the credit agreement and a full statement of account from them. Then you can see what the situation is financially, if they have been applying charges etc - and even if the have the agreement to do any enforcing with!

I would also want to know if they own the debt or are still collecting for the bank, find out what the actual position is so you know where to start fighting back. You have got rights, no matter what lies they tell you on the phone.

You'll get plenty of support here ; )

Well first of all as this is a consumer credit agreement if any decree was granted a time order could be applied for. This would set out the monthly payments that the court would consider reasonable in line with his ability to pay - not in line with what the pursuer would like him to pay. Only if he then defaulted on this would they be able to apply for a charge on the property.

Again as it is a consumer credit account I think he should be asking for a copy of the credit agreement (which may no longer exist) as without this they would not be able to enforce any debt. Template N here is the CCA request. Enclose a £1 postal order and send recorded delivery - do not sign the letter. As part of this also ask for a statement of account, which is free.

He should also be looking to see if there are any charges on the account (I would put money on there being quite a lot of charges) which you can claim back to reduce the balance of the account. He can do this via a SAR to Clydesdale bank (template here). He needs to enclose a £10 fee with this and send recorded delivery.

Also I think it's best if he starts insisting that all communication is in writing only. Template for this is here. Send it with the CCA request.

If they try and put pressure on him to up payments he must just reiterate that the amount of disposable income is all he has and is all he can pay (a court would not award them more). He must also reiterate that all communication is in writing only. If this is really effecting him he may want to consider either changing his phone number (simply inform the phone line provider that you are being harassed and they will change the number) or, if he is a BT customer, get call barring.

Regarding harassment I would also have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/99361-you-being-harassed-telephone.html

Thankyou so much for your advice will check out the harassment link and also the templates, once again thanks.

Hi, I'm back again, followed advice and sent postal order, registered letter to Jeremy Sutcliff and surprise surprise - no reply, last week received a ntice from Fairhalsen Collection group now collecting this debt on behalf of Clydedale bank. Want payment in full or to telephone to speak to them, or they will send someone to the house or arrest wages. jeremy Sutcliff was who the orig arrangement was with, can they just pass this to someone else without informing us ? Do you advise we should answer the letter from Fairhalsen? What about the request to Sutcliff for the orig credit agreement, do we now do this with Fairhalsen ? Help

Did you send the CCA request to Jeremy Sutcliffe?

The reason i ask is that the original creditior should have the original agreement, to be able to pass the debt onto a Debt Collection Agency. Without this they can not collect on the debt.

Jeremy Sutcliffe may not have a copy of the original agreement, so passed this onto another company to let them have the headache of trying to collect the debt.

Well, sounds like Jeremy Sutcliffe suddenly realised you are aware of your rights and are very aware they are not able to enforce this debt!

There is a very appropriate letter I will try and find to send to Fairhalsen (I have dealt with them and they are muppets just like Sutcliffe) telling them that the account is in dispute, you have already made a CCA request to Jeremy Sutcliffe, which you have had no reply, therefore the debt is unenforceable. Also to warn them that they have no permission to deal with your personal data and you will complain/consider court action.

Please please, trust Rory - he knows what he is talking about. They cannot just arrest your wages and without the agreement, cannot even attempt it. The threat of visiting your house I can bet is just to scare you into phoning them.

I think you should also write to Jeremy Sutcliffe informing them they are in breach of your CCA request (what date did you send it - they may be at the criminal offence stage). Also, if they cannot provide and agreement they cannot prove they had permission to store, process or pass your personal data onto a third party (Fairhalsen) and you will report them to the Information Commissioner.

Take heart, they are obviously on the back foot now:D

Give me a mo and will try and find letters!

Hi SOS, You could try sending something along the lines of this for Jeremy Sutcliffe and amend to suit for Fairhalsen. There is a section at the bottom about the Data Protection Act that you could add in if you wish:

June 28, 2006

Idiot DCA

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

Dear Sir/Madam,

Account In Dispute Letter Before Action

I refer to my recent correspondence with your company concerning this alleged debt, copies of which are enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

As **DCA** have failed to comply with my Consumer Credit Act request and admitted that the alleged signed executed agreement is unavailable, enforcement action is impossible under section 127 (3) of the Act.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on XX/XX/XX and XX/XX/XX respectively.

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and (b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore as at XX/XX/XX this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

If **DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

It is also my belief that your continued pursuance of this matter also constitutes an offence under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within fourteen (14) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice. I also require a copy of your internal complaints procedure as further action may be necessary.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing

DPA blurb:

As there has been no response to my CCA request I can therefore only assume that no proof of this debt was ever held or obtained, including my written consent for your company to process, share or access my personal data. Should you be unable to prove my written consent to process my data I will be making a complaint to the Information Commissioners office regarding this breach of my rights under the Data Protection Act 1998.

Sorry I couldn't cobble it together first, am a bit pushed for time right now! Good luck

Hi,Thanks for the responses, yes the original CCA request was made to Jeremy Sutcliffe, who had been pressuring us to up the monthly payments being made to them. Now that they have passed this to someone else, should we acknowledge the new company (fairhalsen), or just ignore their letters if we were not informed the debt was being passed to someone else? Should we continue to pay the monthly sum of £11.00 to Jeremy Sutcliff who the orig arrangement was made with, although they said that this was no longer acceptable and have been hassling. Which is what instigated the CCA Request.

Well if they haven't responded to you cca request then they cannot enforce the debt - you are entitled to stop paying them. They cannot prove the debt or even prove they have a right to collect on it and until they do, they cannot force payment.

Send the main letter above to them to inform them they are in breach of your request and you don't have to pay them. You can just ignore fairhalsen if you want, or send a version of that letter informing then the debt is now unenforceable.

I wouldn't pay them another penny - but that is entirely up to you. Wonder if they'll bother to reply once you say "I don't have to pay you!"

Thank you I will let you know what happens

just been reading you thread, how did you get on.