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Hi all I hope I have posted this in the correct place.

 

On the 17th February 2007 I stopped at my local BP Garage to Jet wash my American SUV. It was not even dirty because she had just been washed by hand the day before. She is washed and waxed at least twice week but due to the snow we had and the salt on the roads and also my chrome wheels I decided to give her a jet wash around the wheel arches and a quick once over whilst I was there. What a big mistake I was to make. When I returned home I exited the vehicle to find it was covered in scratches all over. I immediately returned to the BP garage and the assistant manager took some details from me along with some pictures of the damage.

 

On contacting BP I was asked to get quotations for repair. I forward two quotations to BP one for around £2824.29 and another which was higher. BP then forwarded them on to HSBC their insurer. HSBC then arranged for an independent engineer to access the vehicle

 

On 4th April 2007 an engineer from Access UK came to access the vehicle at my home.

 

On the 13th April I received a letter from HSBC saying

 

Following the inspection of your vehicle, we can confirm that our client accepts responsibility for the damage. Please proceed with repairs as per estimate from (The Garage) at £176.25. Please have the garage make the invoice out in to the name of BP Oil UK Ltd. :confused:

 

I thought maybe the £176.25 was a typo and it should have been £27625

I contacted the garage and explained to them about the letter I had received to find out nobody from Access UK or HSBC or BP for that matter had been in contact. I was confused and got on the phone to HSBC and Mr X explained that was the quotation Access Uk had got from the repairer I knew someone was telling lies as I had already spoke to the garage so I said please could you send me the quotation in the post. To this day I have never received it.

 

Long story short

 

Basically the vehicle needed a repaint but they were adamant that it could do with a polish to remove the scratches not all of the scratches could be removed in this way further more no way was I going to let them polish down the clearcoat. I was told by several people including the manufacture that if too much of the clearcoat is removed I will experience immediate paint system The clearcoat (lacquer) has UV protectants in it that protect the base coat (paint) from the Sun and other contaminants.

 

In several telephone conversations to HSBC Mr X proceeded to suggested that I go through my own insurance to repair the damage!! And that they would reimburse the insurance company. They assured me that they would not leave my high and dry. (He sure did not fill me with confidence after that phantom quotation saga)

 

In another telephone conversation I told Mr X there’s no way I am letting them polish the vehicle.

Even the garage said they would not undertake it because of the risks involved.

 

In a letter I received dated 31st May from Mr X it said to bring this matter to a speedy conclusion they suggested a re-inspection of the vehicle with all parties present myself the repairer and the engineer I done all the phoning around I contacted the garage to find out when the repairer would be available and I relayed this back to HSBC, they advised me that they would let me know the time and date of the meeting. I had not heard anything for weeks so contacted HSBC to find out the meeting had already taken place without me or my vehicle present. I had to request a copy of the engineer’s report which upon receiving it stated that

 

“The repairers were reluctant to compile an estimate (even though I had already had forwarded two estimates to BP who forwarded them to HSBC back in March) we have estimated costs in the region of £2500 - £3000 for a repaint and given there is some unrelated damage in the form of stone chips and other scratches, we would suggest a cash in lieu settlement

 

After receiving this report in a telephone conversation with Mr X at HSBC I was asked “How much are you looking for?” Which I replied "I just want my vehicle repairing”

 

I was told that I was entitled to a courtesy car so I forward quotations for a people carrier

 

Around September we threatened to take court action against BP this was not the first time I had threatened to take court action. HSBC then passed the claim to BP’s solicitor. Mr X advised me that a payment was going to be made he could not let me know how much it was for I would need to speak to the solicitor to find out. I then called the solicitor to find out how much the payment was for, to be told it was for £1500 as per the engineers second inspection report, (remember this inspection never took place) I asked the solicitor where this figure had come from and he told me that it was on the engineers report. I requested a copy was sent to me in the post.

 

I received the report the report had originally been faxed to HSBC, the two reports are identical I compared the date and time of the fax the only thing that is missing is after where it says about a cash in lieu settlement it goes on to say “of £1500 should liability be accepted.” This was removed from my report!! That’s why Mr X asked me how much I was looking for.

 

On 9th January 2007 along with the solicitor’s copy of the report I was sent a cheque for £1500 which I returned because it said that it was for full and final settlement. The solicitor returned the check back to me in a letter saying

 

If you do not except the cheque as full and final settlement then you can accept it as part payment on account in the event that you believe a further sum is due to you then please proceed with issuing small claims proceedings as discussed on the telephone. Those proceedings should be served directly on BP Oil UK at their head office and not on ourselves as we do not have instructions to except service of the proceedings.

 

I took advice from Trading Standards & CAB and then in writing accepted the £1500 as part payment on account.

 

In a telephone conversation in March to the solicitor he advised me that his client was in a position to settle and pay the remaining amount to the garage direct which I was happy with. He asked me to confirm with the garage that the quotation was still valid which I did the same day. I advised the solicitor that the quotation was still valid and that the garage would need confirmation that they were going to pay them direct.

 

After hearing nothing for two months and after 14 months I felt I was no closer to getting my vehicle repaired so I gave BP 7 days to settle the remainder in full before proceeding through the small claims court. I heard nothing from them so on the 25th April 2008 I filled a notice of issue online. BP acknowledged it and decided to defend my entire claim.

 

I received from the solicitor a letter saying

 

“We have now received from our clients the issued proceedings in this matter. We are disappointed that you have taken this step to resolve matters using the court procedure. (This is the same solicitor who advised my to take action against BP!!) We enclose our acknowledgment of service for filling. Our clients defence is due to be served on or before the 28th May. Please could you let us have copies of the following documents:”

 

Valid M.O.T Certificate for the date of incident.

Valid Certificate of Motor Insurance covering date of the incident.

V5 Log Book.

Official Dealership Specification showing height, length and width of the vehicle.

 

The documents that they are asking for are irrelevant to my claim do I have to forward these to the solicitor. I would be more than happy to bring the documents to court for the Judge to see. They have not cc the letter to the court. I do beleive I have a very strong case. Will it go against me if I don't forward these documents?

 

Your thoughts and suggestion would be much appreciated

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Just bumping your thread for you. I would want to know for what purpose they require them. Have they actually filed their defence ? Perhaps you could write and advise them that the originals, if relevant could be made available at the hearing.

 

Hopefully, someone with more legal knowledge will pop in and give you some proper advice. :)

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If they havent copied the court with the letter then I see no reason for you to supply them with the documents.

 

I really hope that someone with some legal experience looks in soon. xx

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(This is the same solicitor who advised my to take action against BP!!)

this is their solicitor and not your i presume or have i got this mixed up anyway looking at your story you have a claim which has been admitted in writing you have no worries you do need to serve your (POC) particulars of claim, this you will find in here on the dummies guide you also need to find the part where they have not furnished you with all the data you have requested so i will look sometime tomorrow for you and also it being to late to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them unless you have already done this and have the info you need will get together your pOC unless citizen is on it already but if i were you i would nt worry too much as you already have the trading standards and an engineers report and acceptance of a debt so dont worry you will win but you also now need to claim for all costs concerning this matter so a further claim for costs should be entered into your POC

patrickq1

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patrick, I would be happy to help.. but what should I be looking for please?

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hi citizen look for the POC in the dummies guide but also look at car's responses and see where he has put in ammendments i wont be on till later but if you get stuck dont worry i will be back later on

patrickq1

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hi citizen look for the POC in the dummies guide but also look at car's responses and see where he has put in ammendments i wont be on till later but if you get stuck dont worry i will be back later on

patrickq1

 

Ok, I will do my best xxx

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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removed irrelevant information.:D

Edited by citizenB

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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This request for information is done under the CPR as legal proceeedings have already started. It is CPR part 18 practice direction that says what must happen. The other side can request information:-

 

1.2 A Request should be concise and strictly confined to matters which are reasonably necessary and proportionate to enable the first party to prepare his own case or to understand the case he has to meet.

 

Now, you could argue that asking for that information is not reasonably necessary or proportionate to enable them to prepare their own case or understand the case against them.

 

There is also this:-

 

 

4.1 (1) If the second party objects to complying with the Request or part of it or is unable to do so at all or within the time stated in the Request he must inform the first party promptly and in any event within that time.

 

(2) He may do so in a letter or in a separate document (a formal response), but in either case he must give reasons and, where relevant, give a date by which he expects to be able to comply.

 

4.2 (1) There is no need for a second party to apply to the court if he objects to a Request or is unable to comply with it at all or within the stated time. He need only comply with paragraph 4.1(1) above.

 

(2) Where a second party considers that a Request can only be complied with at disproportionate expense and objects to comply for that reason he should say so in his reply and explain briefly why he has taken that view.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Just thought - with the dimensions issue, they're probably thinking about was your car too big for the cleaner. It might be worthwhile taking some photos of it just to prove that there were no signs saying cars bigger than xxx shouldn't use it so that you can rebut any defence they might put forward about that.

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Phew, thank you nicklea. I think I must have misunderstood Patrick's post. I reckon that is exactly what c14r3 requires. :D I will edit my posts so I dont confuse the issue. :rolleyes:

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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(This is the same solicitor who advised my to take action against BP!!)

this is their solicitor and not your i presume or have i got this mixed up anyway looking at your story you have a claim which has been admitted in writing you have no worries you do need to serve your (POC) particulars of claim, this you will find in here on the dummies guide you also need to find the part where they have not furnished you with all the data you have requested so i will look sometime tomorrow for you and also it being to late to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them unless you have already done this and have the info you need will get together your pOC unless citizen is on it already but if i were you i would nt worry too much as you already have the trading standards and an engineers report and acceptance of a debt so dont worry you will win but you also now need to claim for all costs concerning this matter so a further claim for costs should be entered into your POC

patrickq1[/quot

 

I have served my particulars of claim on 25/4/08. I stated a brief outline of events. I have also claimed for all cost with interest (The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984.) I am not sure about the S.A.R. Trading Standards have not compiled a report of any kind that I am aware of but I am sure they have been taking notes. A very nice lady at Trading Standards has very kindly been advising me from the start. I informed her on the same when I had the conversation with the solicitor when he explained to me that BP was in a position to settle. He was very clever as he never put this in writing. But he did put in writing about taking action against BP.

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SAR is a Data request. I am not sure that it would be applicable in this case. I think it is mainly used to get information from banks. Of course I could be wrong.

 

So do you have a court date ? Once they have filed their defence then you will be in a better position to know on what grounds they are defending.

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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This request for information is done under the CPR as legal proceeedings have already started. It is CPR part 18 practice direction that says what must happen. The other side can request information:-

 

1.2 A Request should be concise and strictly confined to matters which are reasonably necessary and proportionate to enable the first party to prepare his own case or to understand the case he has to meet.

 

Now, you could argue that asking for that information is not reasonably necessary or proportionate to enable them to prepare their own case or understand the case against them.

 

There is also this:-

 

 

4.1 (1) If the second party objects to complying with the Request or part of it or is unable to do so at all or within the time stated in the Request he must inform the first party promptly and in any event within that time.

 

(2) He may do so in a letter or in a separate document (a formal response), but in either case he must give reasons and, where relevant, give a date by which he expects to be able to comply.

 

4.2 (1) There is no need for a second party to apply to the court if he objects to a Request or is unable to comply with it at all or within the stated time. He need only comply with paragraph 4.1(1) above.

 

(2) Where a second party considers that a Request can only be complied with at disproportionate expense and objects to comply for that reason he should say so in his reply and explain briefly why he has taken that view.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Just thought - with the dimensions issue, they're probably thinking about was your car too big for the cleaner. It might be worthwhile taking some photos of it just to prove that there were no signs saying cars bigger than xxx shouldn't use it so that you can rebut any defence they might put forward about that.

 

Thanks nicklea & citizenB for your help this I what I wanted to know. So do I respond to them letting them know that the information is not reasonably necessary or proportionate to enable them to prepare their own case? They are due to file a defence on the 28th May. They must think I was not insured on the date of incident as I did make it clear that I never wanted to go through my insurance. This was because of their "phantom quotation" that they said the repairers had given them. With regards to dimensions they keep refering to "The Car Wash" in letters when in fact it was a worn Jet Wash Brush that did the damage.

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That could be one reason they are asking for Insurance documents. One assumes, that knowing what kind of vehicle it is they could look the dimensions up on the internet ?.

 

As you say they havent given you time to write and ask why they require these documents and from your point of view their request in irrelevant. What do Trading Standards have to say ? xx

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have asked various people CAB have said they can see no legal guideline to say I even have to responed as they have not cc the courts but to respond asking why they need my documents. Which is what Trading Standards have said also.

 

MCOL helpline said I don't have to respond and then I called back and other person said I have to respond. :confused:

 

A friend of the family who is a retired judge told me that the documents they are asking for are irrelavent he said they probably have no deffence thats why they are digging remind them that the vehicle was stationary and off the highway at the time of incident.:cool:

 

I have come here not only for further advice but also if anybody who happens to come across this nightmare they will know what type of treatment they can expect to receive from the defendant and their Insurers. Keep Logs of eveything because when they tell you they won't leave you high and dry its exaclty what they plan to do!

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The more information you have the better postion you are in to fight back. Good luck, keep us updated. xx

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) is a Data request. I am not sure that it would be applicable in this case. I think it is mainly used to get information from banks. Of course I could be wrong.

yes you can sar any company for information under the data protection act ,this sar notice may also contain information on their screen printouts that could reveal more information about this and on the screen printout you will be able to find the reasons for their determination to frustrate your claim as this is what they are doing frustrating your claim,

dont worry too much about this just procceed to the court i am sure you will find their solicitors more than willing to stop this being heard in front of a judge in fact whatever your claim is if ists for 2776.89 then you want intrest added at the going rate at the time which was about 8.9% to be added to the claim all cost to be awarded say perhaps a further 300 pounds for all the greif you have had,,,so at the courtroom steps have your settlement figure with you and ensure that you have the payment authorised immediately by bankers draft within hours otherwise you are sitting in the court and leave it for a judge to decide...you have absolutely nothing to worry about imo

patrickq1

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  • 2 weeks later...

IN THE NORTHAMPTON (CCBC) COUNTY COURT BETWEEN:

 

 

MYSELF

 

 

Claimant

 

 

-and-

 

 

BP OIL UK LIMITED

 

 

Defendant

 

DEFENCE

 

 

1. The Defendant is embarrassed by the lack of particularity as set out in the Claim

Form / Particulars of claim dated 25th April 2008.

 

2. For the purposes of this Action only, it is admitted that the damage caused to the

Claimant's vehicle on 17th February 2007 was as a result of the Defenant’s negligence.

 

3. The Claimant is put to strict proof that the vehicle in question at the date of the incident:

 

a) Was in possession of a vaild MOT;

b) Was properly insured; and

c) Was owned by the Claimant

 

The Defendant has sought copies of such documentary proof but the Claimant has failed to disclose these.

 

4. No admissions are made in respect of the quantum claimed by the Claimant for want of knowledge of the same. The Claimant is required to set out her allegations of loss in a discrete document in accordance with CPR Practice Direction 16 and is put to strict proof of the alleged losses, reasonableness in incurring such losses and causation of the same. The right to serve a counter schedule is reserved. The Defendant's will specifically plead that the Claimant's vehicle had existing damages for which the Defendant's are no liable.

 

5. The claimant’s claim to interest is noted and denied. Further, the Claimant's claim to interest at eight per cent a year is noted and denied. The Defendants aver that is appropriate for interest to be recovered then this should be at half the special investment account rate on such damages as the Claimant may recover, if any, which is denied.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My Particulars of Claim

 

 

On February 2007 my vehicle was damaged

after using a Jet wash brush at BP in

Northampton, leaving my vehicle covered

with scratches on every panel. After

reporting this to BP they passed my claim

to their insurers After 10 months of

getting nowhere the case was passed to

their appointed solicitor. There insurers

failed to forward all the correspondence to

them one of which text had been added and

was different to the one I had received. In

January 2008 they made a payment on account

of £1500, the solicitor advised me his

client would settle the outstanding amount

by paying the garage direct and arranging a

courtesy car for me which they have never

confirmed in writing this was in February

2008.The claimant claims interest under

section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at

the rate of 8% a year from 13th April 2007

to 24th April 2008 of £2142.54 and also

interest at the same rate up to the date of

judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate

of 0.46.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding MOT & Isurance. I sent a letter to the solicitor and copied it to the CC stating that the information they are requesting is not reasonably necessary or proportionate to enable them to prepare their defence.

 

Last year BP/HSBC asked me contact a well known stone chip company and get a quotation for the pre existing damage which consisted of stone chips. The stone chip company inspected the whole vehicle and gave me a quotation for repair which I forwarded to HSBC and have I deducted this amount from my claim.

 

With regards to interest all I have done is followed the MCOL instructions.

 

Any help or advice as to what will happen next and to how I proceed to prepare my case against the defendant would much appreciated.

 

 

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Now you are at this stage, I have absolutely no idea what happens next.

 

You can of course produce the paperwork they are requesting so I guess it would be prudent to get that photocopied and ready to go with any paperwork. You will need the originals for court.

 

When do you need to respond by ?

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Oh dear, I really dont know what happens then. Just bumping for you. :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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