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    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
    • Less than 1% of Japan's top companies are led by women despite years of efforts to address the issue.View the full article
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Asked to accompany colleague to disciplinary


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Guest louis wu

Can't help with what your supposed to do, but I would say your freind has made a good choice in asking you to attend. Your help and advice is always practical, accurate and sensitive.

 

I think your their, just to stop your colleague saying things that will drop themselves in it, but hopefully someone who knows about these things will give you a full rundown.

 

louis

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Hi there Poppynurse. When accompanying someone to a disciplinary hearing you may address the meeting but you cannot answer questions on behalf of your colleague (unless agreed by management).

 

You should talk to your colleague first and help then to make a list of things they would like to say as, sometimes, in meetings of this kind, it can be difficult to remember everyting that is relevant. Quite often people come out of meetings and say "I wish I had remembered to say this/that".

 

It is also important that you make notes throughout the meeting, as your colleague may not be able to take down or remember everything that is said, and if she has to appeal against any decision, the notes may come in useful.

 

Hope it goes OK.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

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Ell-enn, can I just point out that by rights only a union official can address the meeting etc, a co worker acting as a witness is just that and can not address the meeting.

Now many companies might be ok with co workers addressing meetings but just as many will not be. Now you both can consult with each other and ask for a short break at anytime, so if your co worker thinks of something important then they must make the other aware so they can ask for the break.

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Ell-enn, can I just point out that by rights only a union official can address the meeting etc, a co worker acting as a witness is just that and can not address the meeting.

 

Now many companies might be ok with co workers addressing meetings but just as many will not be. Now you both can consult with each other and ask for a short break at anytime, so if your co worker thinks of something important then they must make the other aware so they can ask for the break.

 

Ell-enn, as a co-worker you may address the meeting, but you can not speak on behalf of the person you're representing, nor can you answer questions for them.

As someone who has chaired more disciplinaries than I would like to recall I suggest:

Speak to your colleague and ask them to tell you everything. Firstly, reassure them that you will be discreet and will not blab around the work place.

Tell them that some facts may come up at the hearing that they may not have mentioned to you due to embarrassment or think are unimportant. Remind them you're on their side if they are honest and open. I have lost count of the times reps stay silent with a shocked expression on their face.

Take notes at the meeting.

Don't be afraid to call a short halt to consult these notes and to talk to your colleague. If necessary, ask if you may leave the room to consult in private.

Don't be alarmed if the chair calls a break - you may have rattled their case (it happens).

Don't bring up irrelevant subjects like 18 mouths to feed at home and grandmothers who are in prison - the hearing is about workplace conduct.

Ask the chair if they have evidence that your colleague has been given / notified of the company's policies for disciplinaries, grievances and whistleblowing (whichever is relevant). Signed receipt of a company handbook / letter of employment saying these policies are in place and available to all is sufficient for the employer as it is then up to the employee to read these. If there is no such evidence use this fact.

If your colleague did make a mistake encourage them to to say sorry before the meeting ends and to explain how they intend to improve in the future. If necessary ask them to produce an individual development plan with clear and realistic time lines for completion.

This should go a long way as most disciplinary policies do not set out to be punitive but to prevent future wrongdoing, also many companies do not need the stress and expense of a tribunal and will try to resolve the situation in-house.

Above all, the employer does not need have to have proof that a crime or definite misconduct has taken place, just that they have to have a reason to believe it has. They are not a court of law, and in rare instances will be prepared to go to tribunal, so make sure you have the story straight .

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

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Ell-enn, can I just point out that by rights only a union official can address the meeting etc, a co worker acting as a witness is just that and can not address the meeting.

 

Now many companies might be ok with co workers addressing meetings but just as many will not be. Now you both can consult with each other and ask for a short break at anytime, so if your co worker thinks of something important then they must make the other aware so they can ask for the break.

 

Hi Cal, thanks for pointing that out - the company I work for are OK with it, but I take your point that most may not be.

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Hi there Poppynurse. When accompanying someone to a disciplinary hearing you may address the meeting but you cannot answer questions on behalf of your colleague (unless agreed by management). Ell-enn

 

Ell-enn, as a co-worker you may address the meeting, but you can not speak on behalf of the person you're representing, nor can you answer questions for them.

 

I thought that's what I'd said :confused: but happy to be corrected

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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I have been asked to accompany a colleague to a disciplinary re poor attendance - what am I expected to do?

 

Check your employee handbook.

 

One company's disciplinary rules differ to the next so it is a little difficult to advise you on what you can or cannot do in the meeting.

 

Also, you will have protection from victimisation should you be concerned that your employer will make life difficult for you in the future should you accept.

 

Have a long chat with your colleague and take notes to discover any possible mitigating circumstances as to why their attendance is so poor.

 

The aim should be to try and get as least a penalty against your colleague depending on how serious the poor attendance has been.

 

Will you post up a bit more once you have a better understanding of the case against your colleague?

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