hi there,

the company i work for have been recently bought by another firm,now we have had all the we will run you as a stand alone company and honour your excisting term and agreements crap etc.

although we are protected by the tupe regulation my new contract does not reflect my current one so im not going to sign it and fight for my current terms etc.

so as far as im concerned im still working to my original terms etc and procedures prior to being bought out as ive not signed anything with them.

my question is can they disapline me under there company procedures as ive been ordered to a hearing next week with a view to disaplinery action pending the outcome for not sending in time sheets often enough?

i will add that im no worse than anyone else i work with and im the only one being called to a hearing which to me is bordering on victimisation?

any advise welcomed

thanks

Hi there, I'm sorry to hear you are having problems following the change of employer. It is always an unsettling time, but the new employers must ensure they comply with the TUPE regulations as follows:

"Employees employed by the old owner when the undertaking changes hands automatically become employees of the new owner on the same terms and conditions. It is as if their contracts of employment had originally been made with the new owner."

(Acas - Home)

In other words, you cannot be given a contract which has less favourable terms and conditions than the one you had with the old employer.

see here also http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf A Guide to the 2006 TUPE Regulations.

Regarding the hearing - employers have to be seen to be treating all employees fairly and cannot discipline one employee for not following procedure while ignoring others who commit the same offence. If you have proof that you are not the only one who does not submit timesheets on time then you need to present that at the hearing.

Are you a member of a union? if so you should get your rep involved in this.

If you post a little more detail regarding the timesheets I will advise you further.

Kind Regards

Ell-enn

basically the paperwork side of things is very basic,everywere else i have worked we have job books in either duplicate or triplicate so we can give the customer there copy and send our in to the depot via buissness post in pre-addressed envelopes.

were i work now they just print there time sheets on a4 and stateed verbally "send them in every few days if you can".

the trouble starts when the customer needs the time sheet for there records and obviousley so does the depot for my hours worked etc.

choices are either ask the customer constantly to phot-copy the sheets so both parties can have copies or get him to sign them and then fax them before giving him the original.

we generally fax as its easier and less hassle although i often get asked days later to send sheets i know ive faxed so they either loose them there end or they dont arrive there end for some reason even though its often sheet 3 0f 5 for example that is missing.

i usually send then once a week as do the others i work with but we do sometimes go over that at which point the office generally ring us and we sort it out.

thats basically how it works.

so can this new firm disapline me under there procedures even though ive not accepted there contract and therefore are still under my original agreement?

Provided their procedures are no less favourable (in other words they do not disadvantage you) than those previously, then yes.

As I said though, if you have proof that you're not the only one - then you need to make them aware of that.

You might find that the new employers are subscribing to the "new brush sweeps clean" school of thought and are showing their authority in applying procedures to show that they will not tolerate deviation from those procedures. It happens a lot when companies are taken over - it's a way of letting you know that they're in charge now, not the old employer (as if you didn't know!!).

If you need any advice re the hearing, please let me know.

Kind Regards

Ell-enn

i recieved the notice of hearing last thurs when my manager gave me my new contract.previous to that we had no idea of there procedures.

the hearing is next wednesday.

You have a right to request sight of the disciplinary procedures, both previously and the ones they intend to use now. Your HR (Personnel) department should be able to give you copies.

Kind Regards

Ell-enn

thanksfor your advise ill do that on monday although im not sure it wil be available as i dont think they will have one,if they have can i get the hearing posponed until i have it ?

Yes, you can ask for a postponement until you are in possession of all the information you need. However, employees should be issued with a copy of disciplinary and grievance procedures or at least know where to get access to them any time they want to refer to them. Your previous employers should have given you this information. Any procedures in place at the time of the take over form part of the TUPE process.

ok i had my hearing and it was basically a farse from start to finish.

they wasnt interested in anything i had to say and even dismissed facts i offered up (verbally) in defence.

my manager contradicted himself several times with regard to when paper work should be sent in by first saying the company opperatess a relaxed approach to paper work being sent in and allows us a week to send it,then it went to 3 days,then he stated it should be sent everyday.

they provided a print off of my paper work for the last 6mths stating the date they expect it and the date the got it and highlighted when it was in there opinion late.

after looking at this it seems to be based on it being sent everyday,this was never stated to me and nor is it in any code of practice booklet etc as the company does not have one.

i was also accused of ignoring phone calls from the office regarding asking me for paperwork which is not true.

no eveidence was provided to back this up.

the result of the meeting was that i got a verbal warning of which i recieved confirmation today.

im really shocked by the way they have treated me and feel like they just want rid of me especially when i also got another letter of them requiring me to attend another hearing over another matter which i have started another post for !!!!!!!

I hope you are taking a 'friend' to these hearings M.

i have recieved a copy of the imformation regarding my ppaper work being late which appears to be differently laid out on the page,i was refused the original copy at the hearing to which i highlighted discrepences.

im planning to appeal against the decision on the basis that they have no evidence ive been ignoring phone calls from the office,im the only on being singled out for paper work issues when the other lads are as bad as me,i have never seen or recieved any imformation regarding how often paper work should be sent in and the fact that the imformation they sent me regarding my paper work baing late is different to that presented at the hearing.

should i speak to anyone about this i.e a solicitor or acas ? im not in a union.

thanks for any advice

You need to object in writing to the new contract otherwise you will be deemed to have accepted it whether you have signed it or not. Unless the new company come up with new policies and procedures then your original ones are still in place.

If you are sure that they are out to get you you should indeed join a Union because although they won't be able to help you with what has already gone on, they will be able to help you should your company try and discipline you again in the future. You do not have to tell them that you have joined a Union until you want to.

You are right to appeal and you are entitled to take along a work colleague as a witness.

In my experience company takeovers are rarely a good thing for employees so the sooner you (and your colleagues) get protection the better.

Best regards,

paul.