Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Direct Debit Guarantee


Tinohead
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5653 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I got a call from my bank this morning saying I had a DD due to come out at the end of the day that would put me over my overdraft limit. I checked it and it was for £162.79 to my local council.

 

Last month I setup up a payment agreement with the council to pay my council tax, at £75 a month, and arranged a DD to pay it.

 

I have letter from them clearly stating the first payment is due on the 5/11 and is for £75.

 

I've had no contact from the council since, but they are now trying to take nearly £90 more from my account. I don't have the money to cover this payment and will be charged £28 from my bank for going over my limit.

 

As I understood the DD Guarantee if either parties made a mistake I would be entitled to a full and immediate refund. However, I've been trying to phone the council all day, and am constantly on hold. I've also left a message explaining the urgency but as yet have had no response.

 

Where do I stand with this, the bank say I can't cancel that payment without 3 days notice, so where does the "full and immediate refund" come into play?

 

Am I entitled to claim the forthcoming £28 charge back from the council?

 

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I beleive that the full and immediate refund bit comes into play as soon as you point out the error, did you get a copy of the DD that you signed? if so, go into your bank and show them and they should refund the money under the DD guarantee

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

banking - direct debit guarantee

 

Direct debits are now a major part of daily life, with many people using them each month to pay their household bills. The direct debit guarantee is a powerful safeguard for customers. So it’s important that firms make sure their staff understand its provisions.

Unfortunately, many do not. Here are some of the things firms have told customers (incorrectly) when problems have arisen:

‘We don’t operate the direct debit guarantee.’

‘You’ll have to contact the originating company for a refund.’

‘We need a month’s notice to cancel a direct debit.’

‘The guarantee doesn’t apply – because you haven’t suffered a loss.’

If you pay by standing order, it is up to your bank to send the payment. If you pay by direct debit, it is up to the payee’s bank to call for the payment, but you will rightly look to your own bank/building society to ensure the smooth running of any direct debits. Mistakes and errors are covered by the direct debit guarantee.

The direct debit guarantee applies to all banks and building societies taking part in the direct debit scheme. It says that:

square-purple.gif

If there is a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, the person receiving the payment (the originator) must notify the customer in advance.

square-purple.gif

If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid.

square-purple.gif

Customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society.

 

 

 

the Information that the bank gave you was wrong you can cancel and have it immediately stopped

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where possible we are changing our debits to standing orders as some companies seem to debit your account as and when it pleases them. These same companies are the ones that threaten you wil an admin charge of £3 if you are not on DD. I don't know if this is legal if not mentioned in the T & Cs.

With the exception of one account, all our debits are for the first of the month. However we are finding that sometimes the account is debitted on the last day of the prevous month, the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th day of the month excluding weekends and bank holidays. This makes it difficlut to gauge how much is should be left in your account especially if you have used the card associated with the account. No wonder some of us incur bank charges although ou are desperately trying to avoid them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I got a call from my bank this morning saying I had a DD due to come out at the end of the day that would put me over my overdraft limit. I checked it and it was for £162.79 to my local council.

 

Last month I setup up a payment agreement with the council to pay my council tax, at £75 a month, and arranged a DD to pay it.

 

I have letter from them clearly stating the first payment is due on the 5/11 and is for £75.

 

I've had no contact from the council since, but they are now trying to take nearly £90 more from my account. I don't have the money to cover this payment and will be charged £28 from my bank for going over my limit.

 

As I understood the DD Guarantee if either parties made a mistake I would be entitled to a full and immediate refund. However, I've been trying to phone the council all day, and am constantly on hold. I've also left a message explaining the urgency but as yet have had no response.

 

Where do I stand with this, the bank say I can't cancel that payment without 3 days notice, so where does the "full and immediate refund" come into play?

 

Am I entitled to claim the forthcoming £28 charge back from the council?

 

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks!

I was in a similar position last year. I had an arrangement with the council to pay £50 a month by DD and they took over £300 from my account one month (from our benefits) leaving us with about £20 to live on for the next 2 weeks.

 

I went into my bank to ask for an immediate refund as I thought there had been a mistake and that the DD guarantee gave me that right but it doesn't work like that. Your bank actually makes the refund but only if they think they are likely to be able to recover the payment (in my case, from the council). My bank got the council on the phone and they said that all council tax arrears had to be cleared by next April and even if I have/had an arrangement they had adjusted the figure to ensure my account would be clear by April so basically, tough! The bank refused the refund.

 

I phoned the council when I got home and the customer services (who deal with council tax matters) said the same. After some arguing I got to speak to the guy who I made the arrangement with (organ grinder rather than the CS monkeys). He said I should cancel the DD and he'd send me a payment card so I could continue with the £50 payments.

 

He sent me the card, confirmed the £50 again in writing and told me to ignore anything that comes out of the computer asking for big payments.

 

Sorry it's not what you want to hear about the DD guarantee but your best bet would be to contact the person you made the arrangement with at the council and try to make your payments manually (card or payment book at the Post Office) as the council can change the DD amount and by the time you get the letter they may have taken the money, this month and every month if they choose and unless your bank is really friendly, chances of you getting a refund are slim to none.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We set up a dd with BT for business phones and they tried to take five separate payments on the same day. Our bank rejected them on our behalf;)

 

Years ago I owed council a whole year's c tax as they forgot to take the dd's. They suddenly found the dd mandate and tried to take the whole lot in one go - which obviously bounced. One thing you can do with councils is get your MP involved. If they haven't played fair then the MP will ask them what they are playing at - and if it has caused you hardship you might get some help. Worth a try;)

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in a similar position last year. I had an arrangement with the council to pay £50 a month by DD and they took over £300 from my account one month (from our benefits) leaving us with about £20 to live on for the next 2 weeks.

 

I went into my bank to ask for an immediate refund as I thought there had been a mistake and that the DD guarantee gave me that right but it doesn't work like that. Your bank actually makes the refund but only if they think they are likely to be able to recover the payment (in my case, from the council).

 

Sorry, you've been lied to. It does work as you first thought.

 

The council were required to give you notice of the increase from £50 at least 10 or 14 days (I can't remember which offhand). If they failed to do this, then the DD becomes immediately refundable by your bank.

 

There is no question of "if they think they are like to be able to recover the payment" as they simply reverse the transaction and reclaim the money automatically.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully agree, I was so angry but when the bank got the council on the phone and they told the bank they were in their right to increase the DD to clear the arrears by April and that no mistake had been made, of course the bank refused to refund.

 

Councils are a rule to themselves as you know - I didn't get the required notice to increase the payments and the nice guy at the council (organ grinder) said he would have refunded the payment under the circumstances but the fact is, my bank didn't.

 

However wrong it all is and how many lies they all tell, when you are face to face with the bank manager who tells you to sod off 'cos he's been on the phone to the council, what option do you have?

 

I appreciate what you are saying and in theory you are right but what happens in theory and what happens in practice are two different things.

 

I was just saying what happened to me, if you have more experience and knowledge then I apologise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ten working days, and Pat is right RG - they've broken the DD Guarantee and you should have had the money back even if it was the Council. I'm afraid I don't know who you'd report it to, but you could try a letter/email to BACS to find out; they run the scheme and would probably know who to complain at.

 

[email protected]

Bacs

3rd Floor

Livingstone House

12 Finsbury Square

London

EC2A 1AS

-----

Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

banking - direct debit guarantee

 

The direct debit guarantee is a powerful safeguard for customers.

 

Sorry - it would have been better if you noted this as being APACS propaganda, rather than as if it was your considered opinion!

 

Do not be fooled, there is nothing 'powerful' in the guarantee whatsoever, the statement in itself (by them) is laughable. It does NOT cover for any consequential loss, a major complaint when an incorrect debit causes many unrelated debits which WOULD have been fine and dandy to fail. The bank will rightly say they failed because there were no funds in the account (which was true), the cause of this being an incorrect DD is immaterial.

 

The longer they continue to fool the public that a DDM empowers them when in reality it is the opposite, is a major cause of concert.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not wanting to labour the point, but having looked at it again, I can't see how it could possibly have been 'fairly obvious' to either a casual or inexperienced reader, especially as it wasn't attributed either!

 

I'm therefore assuming you agree that the DDM guarantee isn't 'powerful protection' for the consumer?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ten working days, and Pat is right RG - they've broken the DD Guarantee and you should have had the money back even if it was the Council. I'm afraid I don't know who you'd report it to, but you could try a letter/email to BACS to find out; they run the scheme and would probably know who to complain at.

 

[email protected]

Bacs

3rd Floor

Livingstone House

12 Finsbury Square

London

EC2A 1AS

I didn't report it, nor am I going to. It was last year and you get over it although at the time I was devastated. The problem with this sort of thing is that you are only entitled to a refund under the guarantee if there has been an error - the council increasing the DD payment wasn't an error as their policy is to clear council tax arrears in the current financial year. The arrangement in effect was more of a concession which allows me to pay a bit off the arrears over a longer period of time and is more or less at the discretion of the person I made the arrangement with. He is aware of my circumstances and obviously has more than one brain cell as he knows damn well that blood out of a stone isn't a viable option.

 

As for not being given notice of the increase, well I looked into that too and technically I had been given notice in the form of the council tax demand which stated the monthly amount payable to clear the arrears by the end of March (the stuff the nice man who I made the arrangement with told me to ignore).

 

I replied in this thread initially to try to help the OP who is in the same position as I was last year. Sounding off and quoting 'laws' doesn't really help if you owe the council money, they are the ones who can send in the bailiffs. Talking with the person you make the arrangement with rather than "the council" was beneficial in my case. Paying by DD when you KNOW they can increase the payments (computer says yes) isn't helpful and the OP would be better sorting out an alternative payment method which would put him in control to prevent this happening again.

 

Just my opinion but it is based on experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On two occasions recently I have had DDs taken for incorrect amounts. I had to quote chapter & verse of the DD website to the bank staff to get them to agree to refund the sums immediately. I then cancelled the direct debits and contacted the company telling them what I had done and why.

 

Clearly some bank staff do not know the terms of the DD guarantee.

written entirely without prejudice to my whole rights and pleas in law and may not be founded upon in any proceedings.:lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a DD taken out on the wrong date (just before payday!) and would have meant I'd be charged £38 to bounce it. Luckily I was checking my account online on the day it happened - I rang my branch (Natwest) and the lady I spoke to couldn't have been more helpful (unusual I know!) she said as it was the same day as the DD had been requested she would simply return it and my account would be back in credit same day - I have to say I was a bit sceptical - but lo and behold it happened as she said, the DD was returned and account back to normal by next day!

 

I've since found out from talking to a Barclays employee that all banks are able to return it if you know about it on the day it's requested.

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes if you check your ledger balance on online banking (this works for halifax) it will be less than the actual balance as there are DD waiting to come off, if you spot it then you can call and physically watch your ledger balance go back up while you are on the phone getting it cancelled.

Any posts submitted here on the Consumer Action Group under the user name GlasweJen may not necessarily be the view of the poster, CAG or indeed any normal person.

 

I've become addicted to green blobs (I have 2 now) so feel free to tip my scales if I ever make sense.;-)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never had any problems myself with getting DD's returned by the bank just popped in said "that direct debit shouldnt have gone out" and boom it's refunded and cancelled.

 

Admitadly when I was younger I even made use of it when the direct debit was completly correct but I was a bit skint, just got the bank to reverse it then made it up to the relavent company by card the next friday :|

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

...as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Consequential loss hmm. 2 direct debits came off on the wrong date and a 3rd arrived from a company Id cancelled a year ago. I had £150 "cushion" which wasnt enough. This happened 2 days before pay day. I will be suffering the repercussions for 3 - 5 years because RBS bounced every legitimate cheque, SO and DD. The cheques - twice. My credit rating sucks big time. The FSA have found for the bank - at a time when anyone can get their charges back (because they can) I can't. I lived on cereal for a month. Im working to end all DD payments - open doors to anyone to take what they want and when. Anyone know a good lawyer out there? I feel sooo strongly that these multi-million pound organisations can rob poor people and there's not a thing we can do about it? Technically £350 - £500 down (food budget) - long term, disaster.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...