Hi there,

I've been working for a small company for 2 1/2 years now. I am the first permanent employee that was hired and its clear now that my boss has no experience in dealing with anything to do with staff issues. I started in an oral contractual agreement (not sure if that is the correct term but it was an oral agreement anyway) and years later I still haven't been given a written contract to sign despite asking numerous times. I was also told I would get a wagerise by x date (again numerous times - numerous different dates) and am still on my starting salary at the moment.

Anyway get to the point!!! My boss keeps trying to pan me off from a wagerise by telling me that I'll only get taxed more (he's doing me a favor by keeping me on my starting salary - cheers!!!). Since the budget changes in May tax has decreased and my wage has increased (only a little but a little goes a long way!). However, my boss has continued to pay me the same amount that I was being paid before. Our wages are done by an external company who send my boss our wageslips etc and he pays me (initially by cheque) by direct banking from the company's account. It is a carryon trying to get a wageslip from him and sometimes I have to rake the office and 'steal' it. I have asked him about the differences to what he transfers and what is on my wageslip and he brushes it off saying things like 'oh yeah the wageslip says something different every month' and then has to rush off somewhere and he'll speak to me about it later. It is normally following one of these conversations that I find I can't get my wageslip!

I'm not really sure what to do as we don't have a heirarchy or system in place like a bigger company so the person I would have to speak to is him and I don't really want to report him as he will obviously know that it was me.

Is there any way to resolve this? I'd really appreciate any ideas!

Thanks!

All this hassle and you've stayed there for 2.5 years!? I had similar from a previous employer and told him to stick his job up his Arsenal after just 3 months.

He doesn't need to give you a written contract or pay rises but he needs to give you an itemised wage slip.

He sounds like a loser so get out-he's taking you for a mug.

Thanks for replying! You've kindof told me everything I've already known lol! It's a bit hard cause I'm a video editor and it's really hard to find a full time job and freelance is a scary place so I guess that's why I've stayed so long!

I've been looking for a new job but just wanted to see if there was anything I could do about the differring amounts on my wageslip etc. Think I should maybe chalk this one up as 'One to learn from' and forget about it! Fingers crossed for a new 'normal' job!!!

Well good luck.

It's astonishing that employers still behave in this way in 2007.

You are better off than me! I told my ex-boss to burger off and I haven't got a job now! (My plan didn't work out!):-|

Hi

i was in a similar position a few years ago and eventually took my employer to tribunal (and won!)

Do you have the name/address of the company that does your wages? if so, write to them saying you are trying to sort out finances ect and need copies of your wages slips, or if they cant supply them, a 'balance sheet' showing your gross pay, NI and paye deductions. This is information you are entitled to and if they are a legitimate company, they will have no problems in sending your info to you.

You can then cross check your net pay with the deposits made into your bank on payday. (my employer was actually replacing the accountants pay slips with ones he had made out himself and was skimming 10-15 quid a week off each of us!)

You have a legal right to a written contract of employment, payrises ect would need to be laid out in that contract (frequency, basis, performance related ect) and itemised pay slips are also a requirement under employment legislation.

perhaps some employement regs printed off from the ACAS site may give him pause for thought!

good luck!

Wow it's amazing how people can actually do this! I thought it was just his inexperience but maybe he's not as stupid as he'd like everyone to think! I was going to call the company and explain the situation to see if they would maybe mention it to him as the debits from the accounts wouldn't match the payslips (the company do our payroll and accounts). They've just merged with another company and there's a new person in charge of our stuff and she seems to phone quite a lot with regards to out accounts (notably now can my boss pay for his home sky bill through the company amongst many other questionable purchases!) I don't know whether it would get him into a lot of trouble but she would be the only person I can think of who would know of this and it wouldn't get back to me. I'll maybe try to phone on monday and see what happens. Thanks for all the advice - I'll have a look at ACAS and see what I can do! I'll let you know what happens!

Hi

 

You have a legal right to a written contract of employment, payrises ect would need to be laid out in that contract (frequency, basis, performance related ect)

There is no legal right to a written contract.

'Particulars of Employment Terms' must be provided but that isn't a contract of employment. Remuneration must be detailed but that need not include payrises as payrises are not an obligation.

 

...He doesn't need to give you a written contract...

 

Au contraire... Part I of the Employment Rights Act 1996 - specifically Section 1 requires the employer to give the employee a written statement of employment particulars. Look here to see the legislation. A written statement of particulars amounts to a contact of employment, and should contain all of the material terms.

The boat has more than sailed for going to an ET, but you can always go to County Court to seek enforcement.

I'll post back in a little while suggesting a course of action for the OP.

Davjoh

There is no legal right to a written contract.

 

'Particulars of Employment Terms' must be provided but that isn't a contract of employment. Remuneration must be detailed but that need not include payrises as payrises are not an obligation.

Incorrect a employer must also provide a copy of your contract within 12 weeks of any request for it.

Employers have to give you an itemised wage slip each time you're paid. If he doesn't then regardless of whether he has paid correct amount & deducted & handed over tax & ni there is a penalty provision whereby he has to pay you 13 weeks worth of your ni & tax deductions.

Au contraire... Part I of the Employment Rights Act 1996 - specifically Section 1 requires the employer to give the employee a written statement of employment particulars. Look here to see the legislation. A written statement of particulars amounts to a contact of employment, and should contain all of the material terms.

 

Davjoh

Particulars of Employment Terms and a Contract of Employment are two different things.

The former is obligatory and the latter is optional.

One must contain prescribed terms and the other, an employment contract, need not as a contract isn't compulsory. Hardly both being the same thing.

Read the relevant legislation again, does it mention 'Particulars of Employment' and/or 'Contract of Employment?'

If you had read my previous post correctly you will see I explained this quite clearly in the first place.

Incorrect a employer must also provide a copy of your contract within 12 weeks of any request for it.

An employer does not need to provide a written contract of employment!!

Do not confuse an employment contract with a 'Particulars of Employment Terms,' which must be provided. They are not the same.

Read again what I posted!

Btw, Particulars must be provided within two months of starting employment and not 'within 12 weeks of any request for it..!:?

I've researched a lot around employment due to various job problems and have to say that Weird Al is right - an Employment Contract is not a necessity.

Direct from the ACAS website:

Contracts of employment

A contract of employment is a legal agreement between an employer and an employee. It comes into force when an employee agrees to work for an employer in return for pay. An employer is legally required to put some of the main details of an employee's work in writing - including hours, pay and leave.

and from the employment relations act 1996:

1 Statement of initial employment particulars (1) Where an employee begins employment with an employer, the employer shall give to the employee a written statement of particulars of employment.

(2) The statement may (subject to section 2(4)) be given in instalments and (whether or not given in instalments) shall be given not later than two months after the beginning of the employment.

(3) The statement shall contain particulars of—

(a) the names of the employer and employee,

(b) the date when the employment began, and

© the date on which the employee’s period of continuous employment began (taking into account any employment with a previous employer which counts towards that period).

and so on.......

either way you look at it, the employer has to provide the employee with details of their employment, pay, holidays, disciplinary procedures ect, in writing.

Call it a contract or statement of particulars, its still the employees/employers agreement IN WRITING!!!

What is so difficult to understand?

A car and a bus both transport. Do I therefore call my car a bus? No, because my car is not a bus.

FFS, a Contract of Employment is not the same as a Particulars of Employment Terms! The first must be provided but the second may only exsist orally, not written!

It is not a case of 'either way you look at it' ie 'a contract' or 'a statement of particulars,' it is how the law sees it.

What needs to be written is the 'Particulars of Employment Terms,' this is not a Contract of Employment, it is a 'Particulars of Employment Terms!!'

Put it this way, if you ask your employer for a written 'Contract of Employment,' and he refuses and you resign because of that, then you will not win an ET because of that.

If you ask your employer for a written 'Particulars of Employment Terms,' and he refuses and you resign because of that, then you will win an ET because of that.

Now see the difference? And the importance of that difference?

Your employer is legally obliged to provide you with a payslip no later than the date on which you are paid, not providing one is a breach of contract. I work in a large payroll office (Local Gov't) there is hell to pay if we send our payslips out late. I would get advice from ACAS or your union (if you belong to one). Have you received a P60 from your employer? As others have said, you should contact the payroll department directly and ask for copies of all your old payslips, this is not difficult to do and should only take them a week at the outside to process. Tell them you need them for Tax credit purposes. Do not back down, if you still don't get any joy send them a subject access request under the Data Protection Act, they cannot refuse to do this (there are letter templates in the bank charges section).

Good luck

if you still don't get any joy send them a subject access request under the Data Protection Act, they cannot refuse to do this (there are letter templates in the bank charges section).

 

Good luck

Yes they can, because payroll is exempt from the DPA.

Hi guys! Sorry it's taken a while to get back to you - I see I've started something on here but it's good to clear these facts up so we all know what our rights are! Thanks for all your help and advice - it's really appreciated!

Anyway I'll fill you in - I contacted the accountants who deal with our payroll and they are sending me out copies of my wageslips. I just told them what my worries were and they said they had noticed the inconsistensies and were discussing what to do. They also said there was a lot of disrepancies with other parts of the accounts (ie debits that shouldn't have been made) so I think I may have opened a can of worms for my boss! They said to bring it up with my boss one last time and then call them back to let them know what he says. If he pans me off again they will 'take action'. But apparantly they called the office on Friday (when I wasn't in) wanting to speak to me about something important and that they'll call back first thing on Monday. He seemed very suprised they wanted to speak to me. I'll let you know what they say!

Josie8 Employers have to give you an itemised wage slip each time you're paid. If he doesn't then regardless of whether he has paid correct amount & deducted & handed over tax & ni there is a penalty provision whereby he has to pay you 13 weeks worth of your ni & tax deductions.

Josie8 - is this true???

Also some good news - I have a job interview on the 17th CROSS EVERYTHING!!!

Again - thanks for all your help and advice! x

Hello Toffee,

Just one more thing for you to consider...

I was with my previous employer for 18 months. During that period I came accross an error whereby I was paying too much in tax contributions!

To cut a long story short. For the year 2006 I was reimbursed £1200.00 and for the period ending March 2007 I received £420.00.

The only reason I got back a total of £1620.00 was because I spent less than an hour writing to inland revenue with a simple cover note asking if they could check if my contributions were being correctly paid by my employer?

In fact I think I will be sending my P60 to them each year from now on. The inland revenue staff seem very friendly and helpful.

You should do the same. You might get a surprise.

Agreed, the inland revenue are not the ogres many believe them to be and will give good advice when asked. They are on your side.

And yes - you MUST be given an itemised pay slip showing all deductions made.