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    • I have had a secondary thought.  I borrowed £s from a completely separate entity 6y ago. It was personal and unsecured. I was going to repay upon sale of the property. But then repo and I couldn't.  Eventually they applied and got a charging order on the property.  Their lawyers wrote that if I didn't repay they may apply for an order for sale.  I'm not in control of the sale.  The lender won't agree to an order for sale.  The judge won't expedite it/ extract from trial.  Someone here on cag may or may not suggest I can apply for an order v the receiver?  But could I alternatively ask this separate entity with a c.o to carry out their threat and actually make an application to court for an order for sale v the receiver instead?
    • You left the PCN number showing, but no worries, I've redacted it. Euro Car parks are very well known to us.  I've just skimmed through the titles of the latest 100 cases we have with them (I gave up after 100) and, despite all their bluster and threats, in not one have they taken the Cagger to court. You stayed there for 2 hours &:45 minutes.  I'm guessing the limit is 2 hours and 30 minutes, right?  
    • If the claimant fails to draft directions the court can order a Case Management Hearing to set them but normally in Fast Track claims the claimant sets the directions...Unlike small claims track which are always set the court.
    • Not Evris offer, the court offers mediation service.   All claims proceed to hearing if mediation fails /not happen.   Why do you not wish to attend in person to stand your claim ?     Absolutely you must comply with the courts directions or your claim risks being struck out. Preparation for a hearing should happen irrespective of mediation.   https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/460613-suing-a-parcel-delivery-company-when-you-dont-have-a-direct-contract-with-them-–-third-party-rights-copy-of-judgment-available/#comment-5255007   Andy  
    • LPA.  (I'm fighting insolvency due to all the stuff that he and lender have done).  He appointed estate agents - (changed several times). Disclosure shows he was originally appointed for a specific reason (3m after repo) : using his powers as acting for leaseholder to serve notice on freeholders (to grab fh).  There was interest from 3 potential buyers. He chose one whose offer depended on a positive result of the notice.  Disc also shows he'd taken counsel advice - which was 'he'd fail'.  He'd simultaneously asked to resign as his job (of serving notice) was done and he'd found a buyer.  Lender asked him to stay on to assign notice to the buyer.  Notice failed, buyer didn't buy.  So receiver stayed.  There was 1 buyer who wanted to proceed w/o fh but receiver/ lender wasted 1y trying to get rid of them!  Disc shows why. But I didn't know why at the time. In later months Lender voiced getting rid of receiver. Various reasons - including cost.  But there's a contradiction/ irony: as I've seen an email (of 4y ago) which shows the receiver telling lender not to incur significant costs and to minimize receiver costs.    Yet lender then asked him to serve another notice - again counsel advice indicated 'he'd fail'.  And he did fail.  But wasted 3y trying and incurred huge legal costs - lender trying to pass on to me. Lender interfered - said wanted to do works.  Receiver should have said no.  But disc. shows he agreed to step aside to let them do the works - on proviso lender would discuss potential costs first (they didn't), works wouldn't take long (took 15m), and lender would hold interest (they didn't) (this last point is crucial for me now - as I need to know if I can argue that all interest beyond this point shouldnt be allowed?)   I need to check receiver witness statement in litigation with freeholders to see exactly what he said about 'his position'. But I remember it being along the lines of - 'if the works increased the value of the property he didn't have a problem'.  Lender/ receiver real problems started at this point. The cost of works and 4y passage of time has meant there is no real increase in value. Lender (or receiver) didn't get any permissions (statutory or fh) (and didn't tell me) and just bulldozed the property to an empty shell.  The freeholders served notice on me as leaseholder for breach of covenants (strict no alterations).  The Lender stepped in (acting for me) to issue notice for relief of forfeiture - not the receiver.  That wasted 2y of litigation (3y if inc the works) and incurred huge costs (both sides).  Lender's aim was to do the works that every potential buyer balked at due to the lease restrictions.  Lender and receiver knew couldn't do works w/o fh permission. Lender did them anyway; receiver allowed.  Receiver remained appointed.  I'm arguing lender interfered in receiver duties.  Receiver should have just sold property 4-5y ago w/o allowing any works.  Almost 3y since works finished the property remains unsold (>5y from repo). The property looks brand new - but it was great before.  The lender spent a ton of money - hoping that would facilitate a quick sale.  But the money they spent and the years they have wasted has meant they had to increase sale price.  It's now completely overpriced.  And - of course - the same issues that put buyers off (before works) still exist.   The receiver has tried for 2y to assert the works increased value. But he is relying on agents estimates - which have proved highly speculative. (Usual trick of an agent to give a high value to get the business - and then tell seller to reduce when no-one buys.). And of course lender continues to accrue interest (despite 4y ago receiver saying pause interest). Lender tried to persuade receiver to use specific agent. Disc shows this agent was best friends with the lender's main investor in the property.  Before works this agent had valued it low.  After works this agent suggested a value 70% higher!  The lender persuaded receiver to sack one agent and instead use this agent.  No offers. (Price way too high).   Research has uncovered that this main investor has since died.  I guess his investment is part of probate? And his family want it back?    Disc shows the sacked agent had actually received a high offer 1y ago.  Receiver rejected it.  (thus I don't know if the buyer would have ever proceeded). He was relying on the high speculative valuation the agents had given him to pitch for the business. The agents were in a catch-22.  The receiver sacked them. Disc shows there has been 0 interest ever since (inc via new agent requested by lender). I don't think lender or receiver want all this to come out in public domain via a trial.  It will ruin their reputations. If I can't get an order for sale with lender - can I apply separately against receiver?
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Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful


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Just thought i'd cut and paste this from Peterbard....it would seem to be very useful, and I hadn't seen it in the DCA section...

 

PLEASE NOTE DUE TO RECENT LEGAL CASES THIS BELOW IS BEING REVIEWED.. 7th January 2010

 

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

 

 

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

  • Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  • The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  • There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  • And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

Edited by 42man
Edited with a note due to recent legal cases....
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This should be stickied.

 

I was told this if this helps, for Credit Cards:

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

 

* rate of interest – see Q8.6 repayments – see Q8.9.

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.”

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I am just looking at what MBNA have sent me,i have been trying to get default removed but each time at the death theyve just scraped in with information.I can get them on not sending default to correct address but now im thinking is the form they sent me enforcible it just seems to be an application form rather than legal cca..any thoughts

MBNA £250 bank charges refunded.:lol:

MBNA claimed £2700 in PPI:lol:

MBNA default removed.

WESCOT balance written off no cca.

WESCOT default removed.

TIME RETAIL.default removed.

LLOYDS TSB.£150 charges refunded

MINT £220 charges refunded.

currently 4 in dispute unenforcible agreements.

HFOS ordered to remove default

YORKSHIRE paid token £200 PPI going now for full £600

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  • 2 weeks later...

My wife is concerned about debts that she thinks maybe outstanding she has found agreement and it states that:

 

PERSONAL DATA

I agree you may hold and process, by computer or otherwise any information about me as a consequence of the application and/or agreement “Personal Data”. I agree that you may

(i) Include Personal data in Barclays Group customers systems which maybe accessed by other companies in the Barclay Group for banking and credit assessment, statistical analysis including behaviour and credit scoring and to identify products and services (including those supplied by third parties) which may be relevant to me, and

(ii) With my consent, permit other companies within the Barclays Group to use Personal Data and any other information you hold about me on Barclay Group systems to bring to my attention products and services which may be of interest to me.

You may disclose personal data outside the Barclay Group only:

(a) for fraud prevention purposes;

 

(b) to include reference agencies, if I am in breach of an agreement; or to the extent that I have give my consent,

© under a strict code of secrecy to sub-contractors or person acting as your agents;

(d) to any person who may assume your rights under this Agreement; and

(e) if you have a right or duty to disclose or are permitted to compelled to do so by law.

The above paragraphs (i) and (ii) do not apply to any information specific to business accounts of branches of the Channel Islands or of the Isle of Man unless such customers have informed their branch that they wish to be included in the Barclays Group customers systems.

Personal Data will be deleted from the Barclays Group customers systems as soon as reasonably possibly after you cease to be a Barclays Group customer.

I confirm that the information give in true and complete and authorise you to make any credit reference and other enquires in accordance with the normal procedures in connection with the application

I understand that I can request not to receive details of products or services, other that with my statement, by writing to Barclays.

The tick/cross in this box means that I agree that Personal Data and any other information you hold about me on the Barclay Group customer systems may be used within the Barclays Group to bring to my attention products and services my bay be of interest to me. o

Signed…................... Date…………………..

 

Could the bank sell this off without telling my wife and for her to give consent

 

Many thanks for your help

 

Allwood

 

 

 

 

 

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This should be stickied.

 

I was told this if this helps, for Credit Cards:

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

 

* rate of interest – see Q8.6 repayments – see Q8.9.

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.”

 

vamps where did you get this info from?

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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I have received a copy of my original application form.

 

It details my static details plus the good bought at the time.

 

Thats all.

 

Does this meet with the CCA or not?

 

Any advice?

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appliction forms are not Credit Agreements

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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So, having received an application form as a response to a CCA request (along with a demanding letter for good measure) what's my response?

 

I accept what people are saying but that's no use without some backup here guys.

 

I have no idea what I'm looking at here. What are they actually required to provide me with when I issue a CCA request?

 

 

D

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MMM, i've received an application form,but says credit agreement:

 

CRAP ONE CREDIT AGREEMENT

MY NAME

ADDRESS

 

 

CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT AGREEMENT

credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

Please issue to me a crap1 credit card and pin.then basic ifnfo about searching cras.

i have read the terms and conditions setting out the agreement with crap1 and, IF MY APPLICATION IS ACCEPTED I agree to be bound by these terms and conditions,as amended, from time to time,I am over 18 years of age.

then about credit scoring.

Your information and marketing, important: please read " use of information" overleaf(section23 of the agreement), no,overleaf,another separate page with 'these clauses 8,10 and 23 of the terms and conditions that you sign with us. which sets out how your infomation will be used.by signing this application,you agree that information about you may be used like this, regardless of whether or not your application is accepted.

 

my signature(yep i defo signed it) dated then their signature.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

is this a proper credit agreement, or could i argue its an application form?

102_0140.jpg

 

102_0152.jpg

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Rate of interest to be applied.

 

Shame that the act did not say also 'and the method of application' which makes all the difference.

 

Note that the rate of interest is NOT the %APR which is a % expression of the total cost of borrowing. Even if there are no costs of borrowing other than interest the %APR it is an approximate figure to one decimal place. The %APR does NOT equal the rate of interest

 

The approximation of %APR does matter though not much. Nearly all lenders will quote a %APR of 10% when the annual rate of interest they apply is 10.0499....%. This means they will collect an extra £49.999 on a ten year loan of £10000.

 

Are therefore CCAs that only quote the %APR enforcible?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I forget the exact URL, it was posted somewhere but at the minute, I have just surfaced and cant be @r$ed to look but when I put my agreement in which had an APR only, it came back as potentially unenforceable as the stated APR did not match the actual APR in relation to the figures shown on the agreement.

Also, the total amount payable was not as it should have been with the stated APR.

 

This is my next line of defence should those nice people who are related to circus performers and are based in Leeds, decide to continue thier Court claim against me.

It is currently on hold as I have defended and they have not gone anywhere with it since.

Of course I will pay you everything you say I owe with no proof.

Oooh Look....Flying Pigs

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My agreement - any thoughts?

 

AppformShort.jpg

Joint acc - Halifax - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 06 Oct 06, some statements received 24 Oct 06 - £264 so far! Prelim sent 26 Oct 06. here

 

Bills acc - Halifax - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 06 Oct 06 - £957 so far. Prelim sent 31 Oct 06

 

Old Student Account - £1082.49 charges and contractual interest - Prelim sent 01 Nov 06

 

Capital One - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct 06 here

 

Monument - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct 06 here

 

Wifes old Lloyds TSB - Gonna nail 'em

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Can i share this news with you,dont know if im posting in correct place.

Asked for CCAs for all my creditors 1 out of 6 has replied but best of all Wescot replied and cos they dont have cca will not pursue £4795.Hoping the rest follow as they are out of time,also mbna have sent me a cheque for £82 of the £250 i was claiming i thought everything was put on hold.

MBNA £250 bank charges refunded.:lol:

MBNA claimed £2700 in PPI:lol:

MBNA default removed.

WESCOT balance written off no cca.

WESCOT default removed.

TIME RETAIL.default removed.

LLOYDS TSB.£150 charges refunded

MINT £220 charges refunded.

currently 4 in dispute unenforcible agreements.

HFOS ordered to remove default

YORKSHIRE paid token £200 PPI going now for full £600

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  • 1 month later...

I applied to 1st credit With a CCA request for Lloyds loan. Had previously made arrangements and was making regular minimal payments.They even told hubby that they had bought the debt. However after sending CCA they wrote back saying they would apply to lloyds for the info then hoped we would make arrangements to repay this in full. That was over 45 days ago. Have heard nothing. Does this mean the end of the matter???

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However after sending CCA they wrote back saying they would apply to lloyds for the info then hoped we would make arrangements to repay this in full. That was over 45 days ago. Have heard nothing. Does this mean the end of the matter???

Knowing 1st Credit probably not. I would start a thread for each of these k1mmie, you'll get a lot more help that way rather than posting on a sticky.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ok post number 10 i cant read it very clearly but to me it looks like the prescribed terms are there so i think it is a credit agreement. post 15 has me stumped. It says short application form on it but it also has something to do with the consumer credit act on it i would say it might pass as part of a credit agreement but as i cannont see the credit agreement part properly i would not really know.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Where do you stand if you take out a holiday online and pay a deposit. Just in the nick of time we had to cancel, due to family ill health, but the company have passed a charge on to a DCA (Newman) for recovery. This is about £500.We obviously lost the deposit we had paid (which is what \i thought was all we would lose). Any help?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am unsure of where to start here but i have just had my debt sold on from HSBC to CL Finance for "continued" management! I have been paying towards my creditors via cccs and CL Finance have stated in the letter that i need to take no further action. I would like to know whether is its now possible to demand a copy of my cca agreement before commencing any further? CCCS dont seem to want to advise me on this issue and told me to just keep to my payment agreement is this right??

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Why are agreements unenforceable?

 

The man who wrote the Consumer Credit Act 1974 explains all;

 

As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson

for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust

Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section

127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company

couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in

the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have

power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament

without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed

that nobody’s human rights were infringed.

167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.

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I am unsure of where to start here but i have just had my debt sold on from HSBC to CL Finance for "continued" management! I have been paying towards my creditors via cccs and CL Finance have stated in the letter that i need to take no further action. I would like to know whether is its now possible to demand a copy of my cca agreement before commencing any further? CCCS dont seem to want to advise me on this issue and told me to just keep to my payment agreement is this right??

Hi Simon and welcome to CAG.

 

You need to start your own thread on this, that way you will get lots of help and advice on your situation.

 

If you don't know how to do this have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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