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    • Hi I was being supplied my ovo after unknowingly being swapped from SSE.  My issues began when we had a smart meter fitted and our bills almost doubled overnight - we at the time assumed we were just paying not enough until then and just continued to pay the excess bills each. Month.    I would from time to time contact ovo and get faced with a call centre on South Africa of the most rude agents who would just hang up after hours of wait and I could not even get an acknowledgement of an issue with my meter.  At one point we were not in the property for like 4 months and the bills were coming just as high!  It was at this point I was sure something is not right and ovo only care to send bailiffs and started threatening us with a pay as you go meter despite me taking out a 3.5k loan to pay of my outstanding balance.  Around 1600 each on both gas and electricity.  This is where its gets really bad -  the very same day they sent me out a new bill saying the money paid already was only to cover up until the November previous and because its now Feb we owe another 1k.   By that August this had risen to over 3k and I still couldn't get anyone to even acknowledge a fault let alone fix it.    In despair I tried to swap suppliers and to my surprise octopus accepted us because even tho the debt is owed we are trying deal with.  During our time with them the bill was coming only on my wife's name as I was responsible for other bills and she this one - now that we owe them 3k they have magically started adding my name as well as my wife's to the same debt to apply double pressure and its showing on my experiwn report now with a question mark and 2700 showing in grey -  This was my wife's debt which we dispute we owe yet the have now sent me letter with both our names on from oriel and past due credit debt agencies - is this illegal and how can I get them to take my. Name of this and leave on wife's name as its so unfair they give us a both a defualt for wife's debt which we dispute anyway.    In the end about 3 weeks ago I wrote an email to their ceo and rishi sunak and low and behold for the first time in our history with ovo someone who spoke English contacted us and said she will look into our claim.    I explained to her that we feel our meter is faulty and despite me contacting them using WhatsApp email and phone I still have not got anyone to acknowledge a fault even. And that I dispute I Owe anything as my son was in hospital for 3 months and we stayed with him so house was empty and still. They were sending us super sized bills more than when we started at home.  She promised to investigate and a few days later replied that she is sorry for the poor customer service and offered us £50 compensation - however she also. Mentioned that she's attached statements for us confirming the payment for 3k I made was only up until Nov and in Feb despite me pay 3.5k nearly it's correct for them to bill. Me. Another £900 the very same day and she did not agree our meter was faulty and therfore the debt stands and she will not be calling it bcak from past due credit.  During my time with my new supplier post ovo, octopus I requested tehy check my. Meters because I felt they were faulty and over charging me and I got excellent response asking me for further details which I supplied and I got a. Response bcak within days to say my meter was indeed faulty and octopus have now remotely repaired it.   I then contacted the energy ombudsman and explained my situation how she at ovo tried to fob me off and demand I apy money we don't feel we owe due to faulty equipment we reported but ovo had to process or mechanism to deal with it or lodge complaint even without having to cc their ceo and our pm. And now I feel sick to think both husband and wife will get a 6  year default for debt which have a validity of a questionable nature.    I explained all this to the energy ombudsman and they accepted my case and I explained to them that my new supplier found my fault which ovo refueed to accept - I've uploaded the email from new supplier to ombudsman showing we had a fault.    My. Question is is there anything I can upload in defence of my case to ombudsman before they decide outcome ina few weeks    All advice greatly appreciated not only would I like advice on how to clear this debt but also how I can pursue ovo for compensation and deterrence for the future.  Thansk 
    • Thanks for the reply dubai 50 - if the statute is 10 years it has long passed - if it is 15 years i havea few months left. i shall ignore until it gets serious  An update - - I sent the letter to the bank in Dubai ( I did get delivery confirmation from Royal Mail)   - I have moved to a new address ( this is the address i gave to the bank in dubai)  - IDR are continuing to send Letters to the old address, which leads me to believe they are not in contact with the bank at all. - i have not replied to any correspondence digital or hard as they are non threatening ( as of yet).        
    • Your topic title was altered last June 23 by the owner of this forum in the interests of the forum Anyway well done on your result and concluding your topic, title updated.   Andy   .
    • So what    Why ? Consent Order/ Confidentiality ? This would be be invaluable to followers of your topic.  
    • Even on their map on their website, these parking rules encompass the whole pleasure park - there is no dedicated area for permits and another for free parking as stated. royal leisure park praking area map.pdf
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Disputes involving S.75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - By FOS 20 June 2007


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disputes involving Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Each year, we receive a significant number of complaints that involve Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 – under which, in certain circumstances, the provider of credit is equally liable with the provider of goods or services where there is a breach of contract or misrepresentation.

Up until now, almost all these complaints have involved credit card transactions (both at home and abroad). However, going forward we expect our work in this area to expand, reflecting our new consumer credit jurisdiction and the extension of our existing jurisdiction to include complaints about point-of-sale loans and store cards.

We often encounter some common misunderstandings when assessing these cases. The first is the belief among some lenders that consumers can only claim against them after they have first sued the provider of the goods or services. In fact, no such requirement exists and consumers can choose which party to claim against.

Where consumers come to us to check the position, we can point out the lender's mistake. But of course we cannot know how many consumers take the lender's assertion at face value and then spend time and effort trying to pursue a trader who may prove difficult to trace. If it seems to us that the lender has misled the consumer about the provisions of Section 75, and this has caused the consumer unnecessary expense or inconvenience, then this is likely to be reflected in any award we may make.

The second misunderstanding we frequently come across is the belief by some consumers that Section 75 entitles them to a refund on any purchase made with credit. Some consumers also confuse the rights given to them by Section 75 with the automatic insurance coverage that some credit card issuers provide.

For Section 75 to apply, in the first instance the following four conditions must all be satisfied:

  • The cash price of the goods or services bought by the consumer must be at least £100 and no more than £30,000.
  • The amount of credit provided to the consumer towards the purchase must not exceed £25,000, and must have been provided to an 'individual' (which includes sole traders, small partnerships and unincorporated businesses, as well as ordinary consumers).
  • The provider of credit must be in the business of lending money, and the credit agreement must have been made in the course of that business.
  • The credit must have been provided to the consumer under pre-existing arrangements between the provider of credit and the supplier of the goods and services.

If all these conditions are satisfied, there is a 'lender-borrower-supplier' chain and the lender will have equal liability for misrepresentation or breach of contract by the merchant. There is no automatic entitlement to a refund under Section 75 where, for example, the customer has simply changed their mind.

In April 2008, the current maximum financial limit of £25,000 for regulated credit agreements will be removed. The effect of this has not been entirely understood by some consumers and consumer advisers, who have asked us to deal with claims in respect of much larger cash value purchases in 'anticipation' of unlimited Section 75 coverage next year. In fact, the cash price limits within Section 75 will not be affected by the changes in April 2008 – so we will still be unable to consider claims about purchases costing more then £30,000.

The following selection of recent Section 75-related case studies illustrates some of the issues we have had to decide.

case studies

 

disputes involving Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

62/01

dispute over the return of a deposit for a car hire contract

Mr M hired a luxury car for the weekend. He said that when he booked the car, by phone, he was asked to pay a £1,000 'holding' deposit that would be refunded in full when the car was returned undamaged. He paid this with his credit card.

Mr M returned the car in good order at the end of the hire period, and said he was told the deposit would be refunded in full within a month. However, that did not happen and when he contacted the hirer he was told that his £1,000 was 'forfeit' because he had returned the car a day late.

Mr M disputed this. He pointed out to the hirer that even if he had returned the car late, under the contract he would be liable only for a further £115 daily charge – not £1,000. However, the hirer still refused to refund the £1,000 so Mr M contacted his credit card provider.

The credit card provider said it was unable to help. It told Mr M that it did not accept any liability under Section 75, and that, in any event, Mr M had not produced sufficient evidence to show he had returned the car on time. Mr M then referred the dispute to us.

complaint upheld

We looked at the written contract that Mr M had entered into with the hirer. This made no mention of the terms on which the £1,000 deposit had been paid. There was nothing to suggest the deposit would be forfeited if the car was returned late.

The contract did say that an extra £115 would be payable for each day or part day that Mr M delayed returning the car. However, Mr M provided credible information backing up his claim to have returned the car on time.

Mr M's evidence about what he had been told by the hirer when booking the hire was consistent and convincing, and we accepted that he had paid the deposit on the basis of an assurance that it would be refunded once he returned the car undamaged.

We found that the card provider was liable under Section 75 and we said it should refund Mr M the £1,000 deposit. We also told the card issuer to adjust the interest on Mr M's credit card account, so that he was not out-of-pocket because of the delay in returning the deposit.

 

62/02

consumer makes purchase of land in her sole name but using the additional card she was given on her husband's credit card account

Mrs L negotiated with a land-holding company to buy a plot of land. She said she agreed to buy the land on the basis of a spoken assurance from the company that she would be able to obtain planning permission for the plot.

After completing the purchase, Mrs L discovered from the local authority that she was unlikely ever to get planning permission to develop the land. As she had used a credit card to pay the deposit, Mrs L considered that the credit card provider was liable to her under Section 75 for the cost of what she now considered to be 'worthless' land. However, the card provider disagreed, so Mrs L brought her complaint to us.

complaint rejected

Mrs L had bought the land in her sole name, intending to develop it as her own project. But she had paid the deposit by using a credit card account in her husband's sole name. Even though her husband had allowed her to have an additional card (carrying her own name) on the account – the account itself was in Mr L's name and it was Mr L – not his wife – who had had been provided with credit.

Because of that, the linked 'chain' of lender, borrower and supplier required for Section 75 to operate was not present, so we could not uphold Mrs L's claim against the credit card provider.

 

62/03

dispute involving the quality of workmanship in kitchen refurbishment paid for by credit card

Mr H was extremely disappointed with the expensive polished granite worktops he bought from a retailer who specialised in designer kitchens. He felt the worktops had been poorly cut and badly finished.

After trying unsuccessfully to get the retailer to put matters right, Mr H decided to make a claim to his credit card provider under Section 75. He had paid for the worktops – and for their installation – with his credit card.

The credit card provider told Mr H that it could not accept his claim, as it did not consider that poor workmanship constituted a breach of contract. Mr H then referred the dispute to us.

complaint upheld

Mr H sent us detailed photographs of the fitted worktops and we agreed that they were unsatisfactory. Not only did they not fit properly into the space they had been cut for, but they were not functional – since they were not level. They were also very clearly marked with grooves and scratches where the workmen had tried to force them into place.

In law, Mr H was entitled to assume that the terms of the contract included an agreement that the worktops would be supplied and fitted to a satisfactory standard, taking into account the price and description. So we were satisfied that – contrary to what the credit card provider believed – there had been a breach of contract.

Mr H said he had looked into the cost of putting right the problems with the worktops and had received a quotation of £1,200. He wanted his credit card provider to cover that cost, and we thought that was fair in the circumstances. When we explained our views to the credit card provider – in particular that there had indeed been a serious breach of contract – it agreed to meet the costs, once Mr H supplied the written quotation.

 

62/04

dispute involving electronic goods bought abroad using a credit card

At the start of his holiday in Spain, Mr J used his credit card to buy a digital camera with electronic accessories. He later told us that towards the end of his holiday he realised the camera was not as good as he had expected, and did not have all the features the retailer had described to him. He therefore returned to the shop and asked for his money back, but the retailer refused and became abusive.

Once Mr J got home, he wrote to his credit card provider and asked for a refund under Section 75 – saying he had bought the camera on the basis of a misrepresentation by the retailer. The card provider said it was unable to help, so Mr J referred the matter to us.

complaint rejected

Mr J was able to argue that Section 75 applied in this case because of a decision of the Court of Appeal in March 2006 that transactions made abroad are covered by Section 75. Pending a final decision on the matter by the House of Lords, this represents the current legal position.

During our investigation of the complaint, we asked Mr J some questions about his second visit to the retailer to return the camera. We had noticed from his credit card statement that on the same day he had made another – larger – purchase from the same retailer.

Initially, Mr J was reluctant to discuss that purchase. Eventually he told us that he had bought a more expensive digital camera. He was unable to explain why he had bought another camera from the same retailer he had accused of misleading him about the first camera, and of later becoming abusive.

After considering the evidence, we thought it unlikely the first camera had been sold on the basis of a misrepresentation. From what Mr J told us, it seemed more likely that having initially bought a cheaper camera, he had changed his mind and decided he would prefer the more expensive one. He had returned to the retailer hoping for a refund of the cost of his initial purchase when he bought the second camera. We rejected the complaint.

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  • 11 months later...

Lol @ bookworm thats true...;)

 

I just wanted to point out to newbies that might be reading this thread the £100 to £25,000 guidlines have been removed from the consumer credit act.

 

Just in case they wonder why they can claim back a £30 direct debit charge.

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  • 4 months later...

I would advise you to read the 2006 amedment act.

 

The regulated sums of money have been altered.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

 

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - E. Roosevelt

 

 

Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.

 

 

All advice is offered without prejudice.

We are being sued for Libel. Please help us by donating

 

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looking through it .... good timing actually as I have just received a letter in the post from Egg refusing to dispute 2 transactions as they are for £32.25 and £50.00 and 'in isolation both under £100' and pointing out the act covers £100 - £30,000.

 

Are they wrong?

Help me to help others!

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They are wrong.

 

Section 2: Removal of financial limits etc.

16. Section 2 removes the financial limit for the regulation of consumer credit and

consumer hire agreements under the 1974 Act. The 1974 Act currently applies only

to agreements where credit provided or the hire payments to be made do not exceed

£25,000. In future, all consumer credit and consumer hire agreements will be

regulated by the 1974 Act unless specifically exempted, regardless of the amount of

the credit or the amount of the hire payments. Section 2(3) extends the application of

the provisions regulating credit advertisements to advertisements offering credit

regardless of the sum involved, and regardless of whether the creditor requires

security.

 

Just realised should have started a new thread under Egg really. Cheers

Help me to help others!

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or are they? I have started a threat on the Egg forums but

 

Removal of financial limits etc.

(1) In section 8 of the 1974 Act

(a) in subsection (1) for “personal” substitute “consumer”;

(b) subsection (2) shall cease to have effect.

 

Then:

 

8 Consumer credit agreements

(1) A personal credit agreement is an agreement between an individual (“the debtor”) and any other person (“the creditor”) by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit of any amount.

(2) A consumer credit agreement is a personal credit agreement by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit not exceeding £25,000.

 

 

I don't think it is talking about the S75 Liability bit?

 

Just reading through the Which? magazine and it points out that although CCA S75 doesn't apply to under £100, chargebacks do apply.

Edited by robert_harper_2000

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Can you tell me where in the act it says ther is still a £100 lower threshold?

 

Ive found this section with an exemption for business contracts with over a £25,000 value

 

Before section 17 of the 1974 Act insert—

 

 

 

 

“16B Exemption relating to businesses

 

(1) This Act does not regulate—

(a) a consumer credit agreement by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit exceeding £25,000, or

(b) a consumer hire agreement that requires the hirer to make payments exceeding £25,000,

if the agreement is entered into by the debtor or hirer wholly or predominantly for the purposes of a business carried on, or intended to be carried on, by him.

(2) If an agreement includes a declaration made by the debtor or hirer to the effect that the agreement is entered into by him wholly or predominantly for the purposes of a business carried on, or intended to be carried on, by him, the agreement shall be presumed to have been entered into by him wholly or predominantly for such purposes.

(3) But that presumption does not apply if, when the agreement is entered into—

(a) the creditor or owner, or

(b) any person who has acted on his behalf in connection with the entering into of the agreement,

knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, that the agreement is not entered into by the debtor or hirer wholly or predominantly for the purposes of a business carried on, or intended to be carried on, by him.

(4) The Secretary of State may by order make provision about the form, content and signing of declarations for the purposes of subsection (2).

(5) Where an agreement has two or more creditors or owners, in subsection (3) references to the creditor or owner are references to any one or more of them.

(6) Nothing in this section affects the application of sections 140A to 140C.”

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

 

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - E. Roosevelt

 

 

Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.

 

 

All advice is offered without prejudice.

We are being sued for Libel. Please help us by donating

 

Please support the pettition to remove Gordon Brown as he was not elected primeinister. He was elected Party Leader something completely different.

 

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If there not regulated and there suposed to be then there quite simply trading unlawfully.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

 

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - E. Roosevelt

 

 

Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.

 

 

All advice is offered without prejudice.

We are being sued for Libel. Please help us by donating

 

Please support the pettition to remove Gordon Brown as he was not elected primeinister. He was elected Party Leader something completely different.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/gordan-brown/

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How can I find out if they're supposed to be regulated and by which organisation?

It's altogether a bit more complicated as the trader's company is owned by another company (calling itself a "holding company") operating on different premises. On the date the loan was brokered, the trader did not disclose this detail. I later found out that the trader did not hold a consumer credit license on the date the loan was brokered but its umbrella company did.

So, who's ultimately the responsibe party? The trader, its umbrella company or the credit provider?

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If you have a look on the OFT website then it will tell you if they need to ply for a licence.

 

The OFT regulate the consumer credit act's.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

 

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - E. Roosevelt

 

 

Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.

 

 

All advice is offered without prejudice.

We are being sued for Libel. Please help us by donating

 

Please support the pettition to remove Gordon Brown as he was not elected primeinister. He was elected Party Leader something completely different.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/gordan-brown/

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I've gone down that route and written to the OFT.

Apparently, the license the umrella company holds allows them to canvas oher premises.

Still, if they let a company they own (the trader) broker a loan, either they or the trader ought to be regulated by either the FSA or the FOS and they're certainly not regulated by either.

Now, the question is, who's responsible for misselling the loan? The broker, its umbrella company (after all, they've got the license), or the credit provider?

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