Gazza01 vs Nationwide - reply to 1st S.A.R.

[Gazza01]

Good morning all,

 

Could someone perhaps clear up something for me please?

 

I requested the first SAR on the 7th March 2k7, NW finally decide to reply on the 23rd April 2k7 [why am I not surprised at them dragging their feet?].

 

THe question revolves around thefollowing on the SAR:

 

"...please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since 2001. Alternatively a completre set of bank statements for that perod..."

 

Well I got a reply alright, 1 and a 1/2 pages listing charges - nothing else.

Should it not have list all Transactions as I requested, which would be much more they have supplied?

 

Secondly, that Kind man Mr Green of the Data Protection Office replied to my further request which was to provide proof/disclosure/notes relating to manual intervention, gave a nice fob off note saying: There have been many events over past 6 years which involve manual intervention [none are listed or evidence of same]. He then lists many items including Return of Direct Debits/Standing Orders, Duplicate statement production.

 

I won't even mention the fact that the figure from the supplied list seems to be half of what I could calculate from the 33 months Statements that I do have from this period. I will be checking this over the weekend anyway.

 

What do people think?

 

Regards

 

Gazza01

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Check of on hand NW statements reveals £2K in charges

1st SAR sent 07 March 2k7

1st SAR reply from NW on 27 April 2k7

[petewill19]

Hi Gazza01

 

Just in case........when I was totalling up my charges I initially made the mistake of including the figures from the 'notification of charges' sheets that accompany each statement. These are issued with the statement in the month before they are actually applied to your account. Including these figures in effect doubles the total that you can actually claim and I realised my mistake before I sent anything off to Nwide. I believe others have made the same mistake and thought I should point it out........just in case!!!

[Gazza01]

petewill19,

 

Thank you for pointing that out - I might well have done this!

 

My excuse is that it was well over 6 weeks ago I looked at the intial figures!

 

Laters

[Gazza01]

Hi All,

 

Re-started as I bugged up the First SAR.

 

Used SAR from another user here, plus my own additions copied below:

 

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: *******************

Please supply me with all records relating to my “Banking History” with yourselves regarding the above account in the form of electronic, microfiche, paper etc.

Most importantly, please supply copies of all original “Contracts” relating to the above accounts. If said documentation, in any form, does not exist or cannot be provided, I require confirmation of this, and an explanation as to why it cannot be provided to be sent to me in writing in the form of a “Statement of Truth” as noted below.

Additionally, please supply any “Terms and Conditions” details and documentation for this account, when at any time in the past it has changed including interest rate levels and calculations of how this applies to any charges applied to the account for any reason.

 

Additionally, where there has been any ‘Account History Event’ over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

In light of all the recent publicity regards the reclaiming of bank charges, most Banks appear to now only be providing a breakdown of charges in response to all and any Data requests.

It seems a lot of banks and building societies are also wrongly interpreting the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998 as a requirement to only disclose six years worth of personal data, and this is also wholly wrong.

The Data Protection Act clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

I now formally ask that you provide me with all records relating to my banking history with yourselves regards the above accounts.

Whilst not exhaustive and for the avoidance of doubt I shall list what I require:

• Full copies of all “Contracts” that exist between myself and your organisation; including copies of any documents you hold in support of same.
  
• Copies of all “Statements” relating to the above accounts, listing ALL transactions.
  
• Copies of all “Correspondence”, including all letters, faxes, emails and memos sent and received between ourselves, and any other third party in relation to any of the above accounts.
  
• Copies of all “Documents” which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  
• Full details and copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party or to “Levy” charges on this account.
  
• Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records or “Otherwise” kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.
  
• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.
  
• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, reason for deletion, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

Additionally, for any other matter you are unable to meet within the scope of this request, please send a signed "Statement of Truth" by yourselves detailing explicitly why and what is not being supplied by your organization or connected organizations. Additionally, list how far back in time any account details in the form electronic, microfiche, paper etc etc is held by you or any connected organizations. This "Statement of Truth" should be sent separately on its own to avoid any possibility of loss in the post.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

You have 40 days to comply from the date this letter is deemed served in order to comply. If retrieval of any of this information should require longer than this, I would like an explanation as to why, and a reasonable estimate of the length time it should require (up to a maximum of 40 days).

 

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch in ---, ---- to save yourselves the postage costs, alternatively please contact me to arrange a secure method and time to deliver to my home address.

In the meantime I would like any information that is more readily accessible to be sent without delay, and any delay in retrieval of any of the items listed is not just cause to delay anything more readily available.

I enclose a cheque for £10 to cover the cost of this request.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Reply for the abocve is now due on Friday 13th July 2007.

 

As an aside, I have a on-going conversation with the authorities as I tried to discover what the law/reglations are on data retention in the personal side [i.e. peoples personal accounts] as against company. I am still waiting for a clear reply after pointing out initial answer was unclear considering I was not enquiring about company account information but about Personal Accounts.

 

Also, notice above that I am requesting a Statement of Truth, rang the CPS [court couldn't answer if I could use it at this stage] & they said "feel free to use".

 

So now its time to sit back and see what this shakes from the tree.

 

Let the Games begin.

 

Laters

[Gazza01]

Hello All

 

Just thought I'd post a update on my latest adventure with Twaddle-Dumb, otherwise known as Nationwide.

 

Background is that I am taking it slow and easy due to loosing my job 8 days after send my above missive.

 

Strangly, it took them a full 30 days to reply. Strange that.

 

Things get even stranger as they returned the letter saying that it was unsigned, I hold my hands up and admit that was true, I promptly signed and returned that on 2nd July, after that all I got was silence till today.

 

Now to just add a twist to the mix, Twaddle-dumb has said they never received the £10:00 postal order sent on the 8th June? Could they possibly be trying every trick to not have to answer?

 

Bad news for twaddle-dumb is that I rang last week friday and got Sarah's Boss from another section to do a little chasing [sarah's section is listed in the nationwide contacts post], I replied pointing out these facts, plus enclosing a further £10:00 yesterday.

 

I also pointed out that I had proof positive that they hold Statement details going back to the early 1990's and more probably from before that. It will be interesting to see how they reply - or don't.

 

As an aside note, I engaged in a short series of emails with the FOS and the Bank of England asking what is the statutory length Financial Institutions have to hold account details for anti-fraud purposes [in light of the BCCI collapse of the 1990s] of course I got back a Twaddle-dumb reply, detailing the situation in terms of Commercial Accounts which was wishy washy, but not a word about Personal Accounts - I sent a reply pointing out that I was asking about Personal Accounts and strangely all I have had from them since is silence. I will be following that up at a later date.

 

A question for the moderator, was I right to point out they are in Breach of the FOI since 18th July, or as they now claim that they have not received payment at all, has the 40 days time limit now been reset to when they receive this new £10? [i have misplaced the details of the previous payment, but I will find it at some stage].

 

Gazza01

[trickyt]

Bloody 'ell Gazza, I'm glad you're on our side! I thought I could be a bit of a sod when riled. Sorry to hear about your job. If you have to claim benefits for any length of time just watch the buggers don't nick them. These are benefits the LAW says you require to live on and depriving you of them means they are controvening clause 187 of the social security act.They did this to me and many others and there is plenty of help and advice on this elsewhere on the site. Good luck.

Trickyt;)

[Gazza01]

trickyt,

 

thanks I think! [joke]. Benifits? I am using my parachute account now and have not touched my nationwide one since I lost the job - One other thing of note, if you do lose your job and you have a reducing overdraft, you will go into default - I know I have, in so doing I have found that any attempt to get statements fail as the branch says the payment for the production of said statements MUST come from the account, but any money put into the account to pay for production of statements because it is in default gets swallowed.

 

And Me being a Sod? Yep. I got a little irritated when twaddle-dumb last year cleaned out my account for a week by imposing 190 pounds worth of charges and said it was my problem how I got thru the week, bad mistake on their part, very bad.

 

Oh, and I have found some details about the 1st payment and will be chasing royal mail on monday.

 

laters

[trickyt]

Hi Gazza, I've just got on line and got your message. I have raised the issue of Nationwide nicking benefits that the law says you require to live on with THEM and the FOS but got nowhere. I was lucky. They only got away with it for a few weeks until I had my payments made into the P.O.

However it was long enough to stop me buying food and being able to pay certain bills which caused me further problems. If you were paid by Giro and somebody nicked it; cashed it and enjoyed it that person would get a knock at the door; be arrested; taken off in cuffs; charged; find himself in court and possibly even be locked up. How come Nationwide can get away with it? There is a good sticky on here that gives advice on this. I sent an e-mail to the FOS yesterday asking them to look into this as a seperate complaint as the matter had no response under my complaint on excessive charges and I was also directed to the Downing Street website where I was able to add my name to a petition on the subject. Nationwide offered me all my charges back + interest but I am still waiting to see if I actually receive the cash. Nearly £1800. I am hoping that the fact I won't go away and will keep bothering on other issues might make them finally get their fingers out. Good Luck and keep sticking it to 'em. Now; where are the Kensington Mortgage threads?.....See ya!

Trickyt;)

[Gazza01]

Hi,

 

Update, Royal Mail passed by and dropped a leaflet saying that I have something to sign for - fast response on the part of Twaddle-Dumb, but I am suspicious at that speed, me thinks that they have not supplied what I requested. If they haven't I'll give them a week to meet the requirements I set out, otherwise its off to the Information Commissionar to register Breechs in the following areas [hmm... wonder if each will be treated as a seperate breech? or as a single...] on: Not supplying documents in said request in its entirety, not explaining why cannot meet request, why claiming only to have infornation going back 6 years, failure to supply complete TOC's etc. This won't happen if what I asked for is forthcoming on Monday, but somehow I expect Twaddle-Dumb to be thick and want a breech to be registered against them. Do not go past Go, Ker-ching pay £400+ immeadietly.

 

Laters

[Gazza01]

Hi,

 

I have just got my bundle from Twaddle-dumb. Strangly enough it is incomplete. Account started in 1987, yet I have received only from Oct 1998 - did the years between 1987 and 1998 go into some strange time warp where it compressed down into nothing? The following was not enclosed either, No Terms and Conditions, no copy of the original "Contracts”, no “Correspondence”, “Documents” “Levy” charges details, nore most importantly the details held on microfiche or a statement detailing date how far back said information is held back to.

 

Time for a missive methinks, pointing this out and giving them a week to reply before going to the Information Commisionar and following a twin-track approach also seeing if it is possible via the courts to compel compliance in full.

 

I will again ask who decided why the requested information was not included, plus the details of next line manager up the line.

 

Laters

[Gazza01]

My Missive to Twaddle-dumb:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for sending me the incomplete bundle with regards to this request.

 

It is as I said, incomplete. The account started in October 1987, my request clearly stated that I wanted full statement details going back to then, or an explanation in writing why said information could not be supplied as detailed in my request of 9 August 2007.

 

The following items are of particular concern and also obviously not included:

 

Contracts - Am I to assume that any contracts between yourselves and others are not kept?

Terms and Conditions - Ditto as above.

 

Now unless someone is going to say for definite that said details are not held on microfiche, and back to what date, they must be held on microfiche. No statement to that end has been forthcoming, I also note my request for a statement of truth regarding the above has also not been forthcoming from yourselves. I must point out that from the actions so far that Nationwide is engaged in evasion of fufilling this request.

 

As a result I will give yourselves a week [i.e. till 29th August] in which to reply with the requested information before I report a breech to the Information Commissionars office, and in a twin track approach and also take steps to force compliance via the courts.

 

I look forward with interest to your reply.

 

Regards

[Gazza01]

Hi all

 

The battle continues - update time.

 

Left it till this week before I started pressing Twaddle-dumb for a response, apparently a response will be forthcoming next week - Plus more interestingly, the rest of the statements

plus a managerial response concerning data retention and disposal of information vis a vis themselves or connected organizations [people holding the microfiche], and I also pressed for copies of the Terms and Conditions, pointing out I knew that copies are kept, no excuses would be acceptable for non-production.

 

So there you have it - we will see what actually teurns up.

 

Signing off for now.

 

Gazza01

[Gazza01]

Hi all

 

Update time. As I was told I got another bundle from twaddle-dumb. As 'I' expected, it is Breech time!!! The twaddle-dumb, have only gone and copied the same statements from 98 to 07 to me.

 

Also as I expected, no TOCs or signed Statement of Truth [it is a document you send when taking someone to court but what the hell, you never know unless you try!], which the manager kindly pointed out to me in his long winded reply letter which basically said nothing of substance.

 

Oh, and no straight answer about data retention with regards to my account.

 

Unfortunately, if I have anything to do with it, he will be seeing said Statement of Truth, unfortunately for him and it will be on a court matter.

 

Now its just have to sort out how to take twaddle-dumb to court for non-compliance, register a breech with the information commissonar, and raise the cash for said court application.

 

Have a test to get ready for so signing off for now.

 

Gazza01

[Gazza01]

Hi all

 

Just a little update - especially for those seeking their statements, the bundle I got last September went back to 1988!!

 

I will now go into a corner and kick myself for not going ALL the way through the bundle I got.

 

Now I just have to decipher the codes on the microfiche data to see what the actual charges are from the transactions that went on back then.

 

Then next week it off to register my claim and wait for the court case to run its course.

 

Regards

 

Gazza01