Have you received their witness statement yet?

Hi J English, Are you referring to the map that they include in the copy of the supposed lease agreement? Is there any way you can post the document up so i can see? T

yes i was expecting the cheque to come from Excel. Although BW Legal letters kept referring to out "account" with them as though they had taken over our supposed "debt" so maybe Excel have already received their expected costs from BW?

Well we received a cheque from BW last Friday, paid from their office account - I wonder if they get paid by Excel on a no win - no fee basis! I was expecting to have to send them a reminder. Discontinuation notice from the court also received. In response to the "Legal Team of the Year" award, i might nominate myself next year. In all seriousness the professional standards are shocking - I can't believe they are allowed to practice and refer to themselves as solicitors! Would a Complaint to the SRA come to anything? Are they interested in companies like this and the way they practice?

Righto Andy - i meant won as in successfully defended the case, as opposed to lost -to a lay person, its a win. You clearly have a lot of knowledge in this area which is massively helpful to people like me who don't, but please be aware that sometimes when experts make little posts like this - they can come across as a little pedantic and possibly put people off asking for your help! I'm sure you're right, but in the hours of research I did I have come across cases where the judges attitude clearly seems to have been influenced by other cases that they were unaware of until raised by defendants.

Hi yes I will happily, just don't have the details to hand but will post them up when get five minutes when home. Wasn't sure whether you can get a written copy of the judgement or whether there is just a transcript of the tape recorded court session?

The judge made comments about considering whether we should take the issue further regarding them bringing the case to court when they know they have failed to win in the past and also giving incomplete/ incorrect info. I thought probably not a good idea to start accusing them of lying or being purposefully dishonest in regards to the submissions they made. Any thoughts on this - where would it be appropriate to take this and what would prospect be of any changes occurring as a result?

Hi, Ive just won a case regarding a PCN in this car park a few days ago - ive posted a bit about the judgement and how the judge came to those decisions on the thread i started - might be of some use for your case https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?484531-Excel-BW-Claimform-PCN-14-12-2016-Cavendish-Retail-Park-Keighley

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?484531-Excel-BW-Claimform-PCN-14-12-2016-Cavendish-Retail-Park-Keighley

Hi All, Thought I would give an update and brief outline of how my case went in Court – hopefully might be of benefit and reassurance to other people who are being taken to court by Excel/ BW. I can see a couple of other cases relating to this car park and would be willing to share relevant photos and the witness statement they sent to me. Court date was 18th July case was heard by DJ Wright. The representative sent by BW Legal was a Miss Kayani. She introduced herself and asked if we wanted to go and have a discussion in a private room, I politely declined, this threw her a bit, she explained it would be more private. I advised her we were happy to discuss anything in the waiting room. She stated that obviously the client intended to proceed with the claim for the full amount and proceeded to list of sums of money including her fee of £160 for the day, apparently “its 50/50 so could go wither way”. I politely smiled and said yes well let’s see what happens (im not sure how she came to that conclusion). She then asked why I was representing my husband – I said because he didn’t feel confident to do it himself. Had we sent a request into the court – no, we have not been instructed that that is necessary. She then explained the process; I will outline the case, you can’t ask me any questions. I stopped her there to say that was not strictly true was it. The Judge introduced herself and then asked who we were, she explained that if I was representing my husband then she would direct questions to me, if we wanted to have a quiet chat before responding that was fine. Judge invited Miss K to explain her client’s case. Their witness statement stated they would not be relying on POFA, instead they would be allowing on Elliott Vs Loake and CPS vs AJH Films. Great! DJ Wright asked if Miss K had brought these cases with her for the Judge to read – she hadn’t as BW had only supplied the WS. DJ Wright also asked if Mr. W had been supplied with these documents if they intended to rely on them in court – they had not. So without having to speak DJ Wright said that she would give an indication: -The purpose of POFA was to address situations where private parking companies were unable to ID the driver - Excel/ BW WS did not follow POFA therefore they sought to rely on caselaw which they have not brought to court - They have relied on the two cases on many occasions but they do not assist me – the facts are different, they do not support the claim registered keepers have liability for other drivers - Mr W cannot be liable for this on basis of being keeper therefore they need to rely on establishing Mr. W as the driver - Burden of proof is on claimant to prove this, no legal obligation on Mr W to ID driver. No inference in law – indeed the introduction of POFA suggests that this would be wrong otherwise POFA would not have been required. The Judge asked what specific evidence Miss K had to prove this…… . tumble weed…….. she asked if the Judge wanted her to go into the signage. - The PCN did not outline the basis for which the PCN was issued and no evidence was provided with it to show who was driving. - The WS does not give any factual evidence – they are merely submissions I had also raised the fact that we had not been given any evidence to show that we had not paid and displayed, the print out of registration numbers was missing data from a machine and the overhead photos of the car park provided by Excel had conveniently missed off one of the machines. Excel and BW have lost several cases based on this point. I remarked that they are aware of this and so in their witness statement to me one of the machines appears to have disappeared. The judge remarked that if it is correct that the court has been provided with information that is untrue and only partial then that is very concerning and the defendant may wish to consider whether or not to take this further. Case not proven and therefore dismissed. She then went on to say she could now consider costs – I was ready with a schedule of costs – literally every penny I had had to spend. We went through it. She then outlined what she could award costs for and then that she could only award certain costs if claimant had acted unreasonably. I argued: - Correct info was not included in particulars of claim as to the alleged breach, we could not reasonably defend something we had no knowledge of. Miss K tried to argue that money claim online only allowed so many characters however DJ Wright stated that they should have used the characters to better use and - Claimant did not provide complete and correct info as requested under CPR 31:14 in the time allowed. Miss K referred to the bundle of c#*p that we eventually received, but I argued that it did not even contain a copy of the original pcn, parking data or photos as I had requested. - BW Legal sent a letter in which they threatened to hand us a CCJ if we did not respond to their letter – argued this was threatening and intended to frighten into paying - Excel and BW have brought this action and yet failed to turn up to answer questions about their evidence The judge said she had to consider what was unreasonable: - POC did not identify legal and factual basis for claim and this was only apparent from the evidence the defence filed. - Strange for a Claimant to choose not to rely on POFA when they may be entitled to instead relying on criminal case law which they must know are not persuasive - Claimant has made the defendant come to court despite knowing they had no reasonable prospect of success highlighted by previous cases brought to the same court. Costs awarded £448.05 payable in 14 days. Miss K argued for 28 days as it was a large amount of money……. Denied.

Hello all, Just received a letter from the County Court to say court date has been adjourned. When I rang to ask if there was any specific reason the woman was initially a bit shirty with me as it is technically my husband's case. I explained that I will be acting as his Lay representative and that I am dealing with it for him. She asked whether I had written to the judge and informed them or requested permission. I said I hadn't as this was not mentioned in any of the info we have received and that I understood that the point of the small claims court was that people did not pay for legal representation and did it themselves. Then she put me on hold to check coming back to me to say that if he was attending it should be ok but had i informed the court. Please can anyone confirm - do i need do inform them in writing that I will be doing the talking and that my husband will not be giving evidence as he will tie himself in knots and undoubtedly say something unhelpful. Thanks T

Ok, I just wondered because on a previous forum thread, the defendant had had a letter also offering to drop the claim for a reduced payment and was given this advice: does the letter say "without prejudice"? Even if it does you can use it against them as they are too late for such communications not to be considered as evidential. take it with you to show that the claimant clearly acknowledges that their claim is for a ficticious amount So I wondered whether I could use it to demonstrate that the amounts they are claiming are not reasonable?

Please could someone help me to clarify; Regarding the letter I received headed without prejudice offering for me to settle for a lesser amount - can I use this at this point as evidence that their claim is for a fictitious amount or does this make it inadmissible? Thanks everyone T

Hi, Sorry Kaffee, ive not been able to reply to your message as ive not made enough posts on the site but if your offer still stands that would be incredibly helpful, given that you have won your case for the same carpark. Presumably many points of your defence will be relevant to mine also. Would be really interested to know what points the judge found in your favour. Thanks T

No they seem to be intended to push us into paying up before we get to court. I think the letter which included the photos etc must be a poor attempt to reply to my CPR request, however this is not stated and does not include what I asked specifically for. It merely states that they are setting out their clients position and provding background, it does not state that it is a witness statement. The documents they have included are meaningless as the photos and sign pictures lack context or any direct link to what they are trying to claim. The without prejudice letter is again an attempt to get us to pay a reduced amount. Shall I write to them again outlining the info/ evidence I require under CPR 31:14 or can I argue that they missed their chance and what they have provided is twaddle?