Information follow up. Took the advice given by the wise on here, just let the situation go and put it down as a bad experience. Ex-employer finally sent a letter informing me that the probation was terminated due to "I had not made any noticeable production line efficiency improvements in the two months I was there and all my suggestions were long term". I am a Process Engineer so long terms improvements is my profession!! Utter rubbish really as I did make improvements but couldn't get anyone to understand that a structure needs a good foundation before you starting building upwards. just thought I would list a few pointers to anyone that starts a probation period and hope it can be of use. 1) At the start of the probation request a clear list of what they are expecting from you and how it will be measured. (I never had that and was told "try to find out") 2) Ask if a weekly/monthly review will be held and ensure you are prepared (I had a monthly review,with no agenda and no nasties were mentioned) 3) Ensure that you have a mentor or point of contact that you can go to every time you need help or information. 4) Make sure the review is documented and do not be afraid to inform the reviewer where there are issues (lack of support,training needs,confusion over your objectives) 5) Do not criticise the way the business operates or any of the workforce (managers can be very defensive and take things personally) 6) Always make sure you have told them exactly what you have done and any reasons why things haven't been. 7) Welcome any support or friendliness, but also be mindful that some people are not always what they seem - kept it professional until you are sure of people. 8) Accept that you are the new person and people will be wary of you until they feel you can be trusted. 9) Do not take anything for granted until the probation has finished and the job position confirmed. 10) Accept that sometimes things don't work out and it may not be down to you - just endeavour to do your best and adapt to the circumstances.

Thank you for taking the trouble to write a great post and for putting it in a way that can be understood. Looking at this forum from this side of the fence. As others have mentioned when people come here they are in a situation where they need help and I would imagine not in a position where they can pay for it. Sometimes they need just that arm around the shoulder to convince them they are doing the right thing. This is where this forum is so great and the information given so important. Unfortunately though there are also people on it like Disgruntled who only provide sarcastic, pointless comments that offer nothing other than to cause tension. On some sites that doesn't matter, but on sites with topics that affect peoples lives it does and it's important to know that information provided is worth considering. When someone posts they do not know if the respondent has any background, is an expert or is giving them the correct information. So the sensible thing to do is to see if others say the same. This is not always foolproof though as from experience of moderating a forum I know that anyone can now be "Walter Mitty" .cut & paste information and come across as very knowledgeable.Topics also fall into trouble when others feel quick to defend respondents they (forum) know and miss what the other person is actually saying. This is counter productive then as the purpose of the OP is lost in a melee of defence & offence. Not good for both parties, but also not good for the forum and for what it tries to achieve. The knock on is that posters in need of help are potentially wary of posting for fear of being ridiculed or being drawn into a battle of ego's by those vying to be forum top dog (it does go on). I have always thought this forum would benefit from members having the option to specify their profession beneath their name,this may be classed as a form of advertising but no more than them sending private messages or adding their background into a post. This would be very useful to anyone trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff and the friction in topics such as this could have been avoided. I hope that Sangie posts again as she obviously is well regarded and her information invaluable, but perhaps as others have pointed out, there is an issue with her attitude that also needs to addressed. Not all posters will ever be the same but Beatrixx, Sidewinder & Unclebulgaria are good examples of how it should be done and they have helped me personally form a decision on what to do next. I appreciate all the poster support, help and advice that has been given and hope that you have success eliminating the posters on here who offer nothing to this forum. As said before this is my second stint on here and I had forgotten what a great site it really is.

Good advice and you are right I am the better person - it's just sad that they couldn't be honest about it all I would have accepted that as it would have been best for the business As it was I did everything they asked me to without any support,made improvements,gave them over 100 ideas where they could improve their business and potentially through contacts secured a large long term contract with one of my former employers (one of the largest companies in the world) All in less than 3 months,not hard to see why I am aggrieved and shocked by the termination is it?

Thank you Beatrixx and sometimes nothing is better than getting first hand experience. Really pleased for you that you achieved your career goals and just one post like yours does make asking the question worth while. As an aside and only found out this morning, due to manning issues and unexpected orders two new production starters being employed middle of next week. Before Christmas the directors were adamant that even with a bare bones workforce there would be no more recruitment. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

And this is the reason why people like me ask the questions we ask - we do not know what any of this means or what the implications are. If we did we would not be on here would we? Please try remembering that - people ask for help

Couldn't remember what my old user name was had not been on for over 7 years. During my last time on here you were one of those that provided me with a lot of help and support and it went a long way to resolving various issues. What's sad about all of this is (and it's only become deal made by others) is the perception I am not "hearing" the advice, as that's far from the truth and I have not challenged any of it given. All I have looked to do is get as much of it as I can - hence why I have been researching different avenues SgtBush yes you did tell me but that doesn't mean that she is any good at it or everything she says has to be taken as gospel. That's why it pays to get other opinions. (remember Acas & CAB have said things as well) Are you saying then that posters have no right to ask advice after one person has answered? No my case has nothing to do with 6 items listed and I am not investigating that - I am looking at it from a Breach of Contract perspective as my employer did not follow Due Process and allow for me to have prior notice,time to prepare and have representation Two things that both ACAS,CAB and the two firms that contacted me all have said I should have had http://www.firstpracticemanagement.co.uk/blog/posts/probationary-periods-a-guidance-to-probationary-periods/ As for quoting this is one of the reasons I have come back on here - I can find lots of quotes that contradict each other.

Couldn't remember what my old user name was had not been on for over 7 years. During my last time on here you were one of those that provided me with a lot of help and support and it went a long way to resolving various issues. What's sad about all of this is (and it's only become deal made by others) is the perception I am not "hearing" the advice, as that's far from the truth and I have not challenged any of it given. All I have looked to do is get as much of it as I can - hence why I have been researching different avenues

You won't cause offence so fire away What's being missed through all of this is at the outset I had no awareness what Sangies background was and because I asked for others advice,she took offence to it. There has been no disputing the information provided anywhere throughout this topic and her information has been valuable, but because I requested if any more could be added she went on the offensive. Remember I have contacted various professional bodies who have all given conflicting advice, am I in the wrong to ask for more so as to work out what is actually correct? From Vaubans post (and everything he has said regarding people asking for help is spot on) it looks like this is not the first time that she had replied this way. Whether she is offended or not,for someone in her profession to make that comment to someone who has just been made unemployed is disrespectful and disgusting. It goes against everything that this site is about,some of you including SgtBush with your "If tho is the op's attitude at work , no wonder the original question was asked" comment might want to remember that sometimes.

Think a couple of people are missing what's actually gone on here. My first time on here for a long time and I do not have a clue of anyones background. i

For someone who doesn't think they are aggressive you could do with reading your last post through - nothing but unjustified personal attacks. Not once have I questioned this site and have nothing but respect for it. Neither have I questioned you,I just asked for other opinions but you seem to take it that your opinion is the only one that matters. I think your last comment considering your line of work is disgraceful and shows what an opinionated,up your own a**e kind of person you are. "just for information....now i am being aggressive....i am beginning to think that i understand why your employers got shut of you. A lucky escape for them, i suspect." Congratulations your ego has probably now stopped genuine people asking for help. Pathetic

Firstly thank you all for your advice Sangie595 - You opened your comments with "No. You don't understand." which I do find aggressive for someone who is asking a genuine question. In addition to this as pointed out by Spudzulu I never demanded anything from you and my question on asking your experience was again genuine. There are a lot of self-appointed experts on the internet who read something once then regurgitate it thinking they are the bees. As you your post count is less than 600 and I am a new visitor how am I to know that you are an expert or that this is your field of expertise. The help and comments you have given are valuable but remember you offer the advice on here willingly and a lot of the questions may be raised by people who are desperate for support. The last thing they need is to feel they are being spoken down to. If you are not prepared to accept that they may not understand then perhaps this is not for you. As for aggressive " I have plenty to do without imposing my legally correct advice on people who don't want to hear it" only reiterates my point. Give the great support but a bit of courtesy wouldn't go amiss Disgruntled I used to be a member on this site for many years and some of the information provided was invaluable and helped me resolve a few issues. Coming back it's keyboard warriors such as you that remind me why I stopped using it. There may be people who are nervous about posting that choose not to for fear of reading sarcastic comments and ridicule by clowns such as you. The only thing you achieve by your posting is to reduce the worth of this great site and to be counterproductive to what this site is trying to achieve - helping people. I am sure you will reply as your type of attention seeker always does - just a shame that the Mods on here can't do something about sad individuals like you who offer nothing. Once again thank you to all who replied (Sangie-Ell-enn I have taken on board your comments and appreciate the advice)

Thank you for taking the time to reply but please try to be a bit less aggressive - can I please ask what your professional experience is? As it stands Acas and after todays visit, CAB have advised that I use my employers appeal process as they both believe that Due Process has not been followed. This has also been supported online by two advisory HR practioners and in addition 2 Employment law firms are interested in the chain of events I have submitted. The ball is now in my court but I would still appreciate information from others.

Yes sadly that's the way I see it and one of the things about modern employment law. One of my colleagues has now informed me that due to a sudden order increase they have to take more workforce on. I felt they were trying to run undermanned anyway without this am now thinking I have been sacrificed so as they can take on two directs. Who knows,but thank you for your help

I believe the 2 year rule only applies to Unfair Dismissal as Ethel pointed out Wrongful Dismissal does not have these restrictions and can be applied from day one of employment. The points I am trying to gain information for is they have not followed Acas guidelines for the review and termination process e.g Notification in advance of a scheduled meeting and intent to dismiss. This has been taken from the firstpracticemanagement.co.uk Probation - Contract termination section Whilst an employee cannot claim unfair dismissal in the first year of service, which has now been increased to a two years qualifying period for employees starting on or after 6 April 2012, if you dismiss someone without going through a fair dismissal process an employee can claim wrongful dismissal, for which there is no length of service requirement. Wrongful dismissal occurs when an employer dismisses an employee in breach of the employer's contractual or statutory obligations, for example by failing to follow a contractual disciplinary / dismissal procedure or failure to give contractual notice. Employers can be required to pay damages for wrongful dismissal if taken to an employment tribunal

Hi Ethel No that was not discussed Ethel is correct and Wrongful Dismissal is the avenue that I am looking at. I believe my ex-employer acted outside employment guidelines as: The reviews were not scheduled, nor documented and content signed for confirmation of what was discussed. (importantly no targets were set so what was the measurement for suitability?) If they felt I was under performing this should have been discussed, improvement actions agreed, opportunity to improve given and all documented. Notice of termination pending should have been given to allow for time to prepare and arrange for a representative to attend. I now have a dismissal on my employment record, without I feel justification