thanks for your wise words sangie, i agree and think the same with all you have said....this whole thing was emotional for me as i saw it as a personal attack from someone i knew and liked. so lots of lessons learned through this for me. and about the union, i am so pro-union and always had the intention to join, i've always thought of it as an insurance too. just something i didn't get round to. i know that they only represent their members, but i had been advised that sometimes they can sometimes act for a collective, but that's down to them. agghhhhh. woody guthrie would not be proud of me! i'm not proud of me. i have thought about going to the headmaster, at first through anonymous letter, but it'd be so obvious it'd have been me, and if i was the headmaster i don't think i would be very understanding with an anonymous letter. so thought about a meeting and decided that i would do that when the time comes for me to leave. i'll tell him why i am leaving (and about the beers he bought with his own cash in sainsbury's, didn't even come into our stores to get them!) so, the other lady had her meeting with the rep, and he seems to think that there is a case to be had, especially as they are deducting the money so late and with no notice, when they've had ample opportunity to do so in the last few months. he's going to try and keep her name out of the issue, but she understands that if push comes to shove, then she's willing to go forward and do what needs to be done, she's got broad shoulders too. he's gonna gather the facts and then approach our manager. she wants me to stand back and see what happens, so that's what i'll do. i think this way will also work in our favour as they know what i'm like and they will suddenly realise i'm not the only one who is willing to fight back on occasion. we've also reached half term, so that will give some breathing space while this happens. the rep has said they will have another meeting after half term. so it all seems fairly positive. as i said before, i think if we all play by the book then it will hurt the managers before us. they won't be able to rely on us to keep the dept. running when short staffed (which is always) through overtime, they won't be able to hold functions, which we all cover as extra, without getting in agency staff. they won't be able to go home early, or get paid for the days we do activities on during the holidays. so they will also need to think very carefully about the decisions that they make. what will be will be. it's not my fight anymore for now...i'm just glad to know that i was right in thinking that what he has done isn't fair and could be going beyond what they're allowed to do. thanks again

when i said closing ranks...i don't mean that he won't be helping us, if he says similar to what you have and i hadn't sought your advice, i would be thinking the worst of him and i don't want to do that...i want to see if what different people say matches up to get the best perspective

i was stupid in not joining a union sooner, we're in a small town and my manager happens to be a friend of friends etc. we've socialised with him at parties. i trusted him, thought he was decent and joining a union didn't seem a priority. i'm so angry at myself. i have joined now, but obviously it's after the dispute has started. don't worry, i don't think many people would see the way he has handled it to be, at least, fair. i understand that it's your role on here to tell us as you see it, you've the experience and i'm happy to take your advice or to ignore it and not think that you are wrong. you've only been reaffirming the worries that i do have. i also question myself as after this, i will be seeking other employment, i don't want to cause a load of hassle and then just leave everyone else to deal with the repercussions. i'm starting an access course in september to start to get into social work. i certainly have the passion and inclination for it i have an escape plan! but the others don't one of our group is a member of a union, she arranged a meeting with the rep after work today, i don't know until tomorrow what he's got to say about it. but as i understand they represent their own member, i am hoping that if the union takes this up it's not going to be all on me....and even if only representing her, and i stay out of it, it will highlight that our manager has not followed correct procedure and that's the main thing that i want. for it to be noted and for others, higher than him to know what he really thinks of us....half of what our headmaster does!. we have many people in our dept that aren't capable of fighting back and don't have the courage or knowledge to know how to. i've not done a great job with this problem as i was so angry....however, i have helped make changes to the workplace in the past through highlighting certain issues and even the manager is aware and agrees that things weren't right for sometime in how some colleagues were treated/taken advantage of. working in a private school is quite hard for me. and although we do have union representation, i have been seeking my own advice as i don't know how unions exactly work and esp. in the environment i work in (we are worried about them closing ranks) and to be honest, i find it all very interesting, hence a start of an actual career. i really appreciate your advice and i think the work you all do on this site is something to be commended. folk on other threads have helped me with debt and some other bits and pieces, basically helped get me out of a right mess. i'm so grateful for that. i'll be back once i know what the union rep says, and see if it all tallies up or not and then talk to my colleagues and decide where to go thanks to you all

hi, thanks for the reply. i can be hot headed and i'm trying to do this in far more reasoned manner now....hence seeking other advice other than what i see as fair, because that's not necessarily the law. i know they don't have to pay for "snowdays", that it's not really a thing...i mentioned that i know that. it was just a bonus....which was from the headmaster, it was then our manager who decided that we would owe those hours....which i know they are entitled to do. i doubt the headmaster even knows any of this is a problem. my issue lies with them now changing their minds about owing the hours and deducting the money with a only a weeks notice (we get paid monthly). the payroll has already gone through and so this must have been arranged before even telling us. i don't really want to go down a sexism route, like i said, it wasn't done with that in mind, i was advised that could be a possible route. that's me just thinking angrily...sorry! i just wanted to see if anyone else agreed with that route. i'll forget that one! also if i don't see it as a factor, i'd find it very hard to fight that corner. and about the chefs, again, i was just wondering. so that's out too. i will probably be able to get information through colleagues anyway, if i felt the need to aid our case. i checked my contract after writing my post yesterday, i also checked our staff handbook and procedures. there is no mention of deducting pay. i also did a bit of reading on the government sites etc. and was reading about what you have mentioned that deductions can be made under certain circumstances. i don't think those have necessarily been met... *the reason i think it's unlawful deduction is because we agreed to make up those hours as per his request. that did not happen, not by us, but by them not deducting the money or arranging to do so with us. he has now changed what was agreed. we have had no date in which to make the time up or told that if we didn't the money would be deducted by such and such date. we have nothing in writing confirming any dates or amounts. they have now deducted the money and we have had no chance to agree or disagree with the new arrangement, it was just put upon us.* as for taking it further, i have pretty broad shoulders, the other 5 people it effects also agree that they want to. i do want it highlighted officially that we are not happy with the way things have happened. as for the perks, we only get them because it suits the managers to go home early, if they didn't want to go, we would be staying for the full time, same as some of the other perks, it's them who benefit the most from them. it's literally the principle of the matter. so the grievance procedure is the way to go, as you suggest. as for rebuilding bridges with my manager. no, that's not gonna happen, due to other things that have occurred over the snow day, it's irrelevant to any laws, so i won't bore you with all the details, but it involved the headmaster buying a crate of beer for those who did make it in but our manager decided not to share it out. so whether or not the law applies, i see him as a thief. all respect has gone and i have no interest in him. i will keep things civil for the sake of the workplace and that's it. the part that i have put * next to....does that sound more reasoned to you, could i write something along those similar lines? thanks again

hi there, i'm having an issue at work about payment for "snowdays", back in january. i work in a private boarding school as a lunchtime supervisor. back when we had a day of snow there were members of our dept. that obviously couldn't get into work. we don't get paid for sick days or days off so no one was expecting payment, and we know that the employer doesn't have to pay them as a sign of generosity the headmaster agreed that we would all be paid for the one day that we couldn't get in. lovely until, our dept. manager said that although the headmaster has agreed this, it is down to the managers how they implement it. so our lovely manager decided that although we would be physically paid for the day, he sees it fair that we would owe half the hours in time. now most of us that this affected was us part-timers, we work school hours (9-3), we have kids, the dept. is often short staffed and we make up that shortfall in overtime. many work weekends etc. so to owe those hours in time is quite hard to fit in, when many are already counting on the overtime to bump up our wages (though i know this is our own personal issues and not to do with the school). no other dept. has done this to their staff. everything in the school is in house, so we're not just talking teachers, but cleaners, matrons, plumbers, maintenance, electricians, sports hall staff.....and none did this, they gave the pay freely and happily. so i made a few enquiries and found out that it's legal for them to do this....i could have made a fuss about how it effects women because of the nature of the hours and those who couldn't get in...but i don't really want to go down that route as i don't believe it was done with sexism in mind. i did have a meeting with my manager, as i'd been moaning for the week (not the correct way to handle things i know :/ ). his explanation was that the head had said how each manager implements it, and that as a dept we get a lot of perks....which we do, we get to go home early if boys aren't there, take food home etc. but every dept has it's perks, be it more breaks, use of equipment, drinks etc. when i pressed him on his decision he said that if i was to make a fuss then he would play by the rule book and we would not have any perks. i see this as a threat...essentially that it would be my fault that the whole dept loses out. anyhow, we're 4 months down the line, we've been paid and our manager hasn't yet claimed back half the hours. yesterday, we were called into a meeting where it was then announced that we don't have to make up the hours, but he will take half the pay back that we received in our next pay packet, which is next week. so the main question is, can he deduct the pay after it has already been received, esp. with a week's notice. people have budgeted for next month and this will effect their households. we have chefs in the kitchen, none of those have attended our meetings, this has led me to wonder if they are getting the same treatment...am i legally entitled to know what agreement has been reached with them? i want to know if it is a dept. issue or just one for the lunchtime supervisors, unfair treatment within the dept maybe? if i want to get spiteful and go down the sexism route, is this possible? there is one man that is affected by this, so it's not "all" women. thanks for your help (in advance) and sorry for the long story but i wanted to get as much info as possible

we phoned the court, we have to go to the actual court to sign the statutory declaration, they've put a hold on the case for 28 days for us to do so. they phoned the bailiffs to advise. signing that will set things right from the beginning again, where we will go to court with our budget sheet and, hopefully, set up a payment plan, and a bit of extra luck a lesser fine. so that's that sorted. thank you for all the advise. with regards to the bailiff, mr harvey...he phoned my partner, all jolly and rather nice...said "oh you done the right thing going back to the courts, worked out well for you, well done, you'll never see me again now!"... we've reported him to the email address that we were advised and the lcc.

thanks a lot for getting back unclebulgaria (fan of the wombles myself!!) i shall see what the courts have to say...just don't want the bailiffs coming back, i hear under these circumstances they have a right to force entry and i've got 3 kids under 5

ok, thank you. so if this visit does not count, what about the fact that the distress warrant ran out before he came. does it have any effect on how we can deal with this, maybe getting more time if they need to go back to court? what about the 6 months grace period? i have also been advised that we should get a statutory declaration (as we didn't receive a summons) under section 142 of the magistrates court act that we would have been fined in absence and no means of payment taken into account. this would then set the case back to the beginning and we may be able to get a lesser fine.

oh, i left out that the reason there are 5 incidents on there, it seems 2 have been to court twice.

Hi there, Just looking for some advice of where we may be able to go with this. A bailiff from Marston Group, Mr Harvey, called at my house on Saturday in regards to having the car untaxed on 3 occassions, 2 in 2011 and once 2010. He said he had a distress warrant. the list of what he showed had 5 incidents on there, 2 of which seemed to be duplicated as the same date was shown. They want £1500.0 from us. Now to be honest, when the incidents occured I was in a bit of a state and was hiding debt letters from my partner. I can't remember what came through and what I hid. I have not been hiding anything since June last year when everything came to a head with our mortgage. So it is likely I hid letters in regard to this. W have not had a letter from Marston's to date, though they say they sent one at the beginning of November 2012. We did not let the bailiff in the house, and he didn't ask to come in, we took the bit of paper he gave us and as we'd changed cars over that period we needed to find out what it was in relation to. We said we'd call him today. He went away. Today we have been in touch with the court, and looks like it was us and we owe this money. The court advised that the distress warrant would have expired on 20/03/2013 and he showed up on the 23/03/2013...the court advised that now they have made contact this would give the bailiff 3 extra months to deal with it. After this i went on to check to see if he was certificated, there are some Mr Harvey's on the register, but none showing at being employed by the Marston Group. When i phoned Marston's they advised his number and that that "looked old" and they did not recognise the name Harvey. So my partner phoned Mr Harvey himself and he got a bit cagey and with nervous laughter stated he was no longer dealing with it as his certification had "ran out this morning". We are currently trying to get hold of the courts to see if they can take the debt back and we deal with the courts, hopefully arrange some sort of payment plan with them, and maybe get the bailiff fines taken off. Just kind of wondering if there is anything that we can do about the fact that this guy seems to not be certificated. I was advised that there is a grace period of 6 months for a bailiff to be able to act whilst getting his certification, but with this Mr harvey's dodgy reaction if there is something else we can do, maybe find out how long he's been employed by Marston etc. We can't afford to pay the debt in one go and will cll upon the mercy of the courts with a budget sheet. we aren't in any sort of vulnerable position so we won't have that on our side. We are quite happy to accept the debt and a reasonable amount of time to pay. Thanks in advance for any help given. Claire