spelluk
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Thanks BazzaS! Will get this right away. Wish I was more experienced to give you an answer... He was actually familiar with the case law but said it didn't apply in my case. Then about s.87 of the CCA, he said that neither (a) or (b) applied to my case either... to which I haven't been able to provide a counter-argument as I am unfortunately not familiar with the technicalities... And the "earlier repayment" (b) I could understand, however not sure how I could have used (a) to say the claimant was "wrong". But I guess it's now too late to do anything about this? Unless I go to appeal? Not really sure what to do here... Not yet as I was waiting for some tips on how to record the call. Now that I have the info, will ring them on my lunch break. Will also call the court to find out if they will send/have sent the General Order. Just thinking of something else - if I make the first payment as scheduled on the 8th, will I still get a chance to get them to spread out the next installments so it's more managable for me? Or by making the first payment as per the DJ order, I'm basically bound to continue as per his order?
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Makes sense. I've actually been looking for quite some time to find a way to record my calls but haven't found anything for iPhone (maybe didn't look hard enough). Does anyone have experience in doing so on iPhone?
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Will call Lowell now and see what they say. Thanks for the advices. Re the General Order, is this something I will automatically receive or should I request it to the Court? As the first payment is due in 6 days, wondering whether I'm likely to receive this before that deadline... just so I know exactly what the order entails. At the hearing, after making our arguments the judge said that the order was to make those 3 payments. He gave the dates and amounts at which they would have to be made. After that, he just asked us if we wrote down what he just said. I did and that was the end of the hearing. Is it possible that nothing will be sent to me and the DJ will wait to see if the first payment is made? In other words, he expects the notes we took during his verdict to be sufficient? On your point re speaking with Lowell and if they agree to the new payment plan to let the court know. What is the process to do so? Do I/they need to write to the court to confirm? As the turnaround time between judgment and the first payment is quite short, wondering whether it will allow sufficient time to do so.
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I would regard it as a small victory...they didnt get their Judgment - Judge was very nice and accomodating. Accepted my Skeleton argument and well aware that I was "skilled" when it came to law - On the s.87 CCA point - alas he said he didn't not apply to this case as the claiment was not demanding earlier payment of any sum (s.87 (1)(b) But section 87.1 (a) applies - So despite acknowledging that my defense was "strong" and "fair", it didn't apply in my case... can anyone confirm this? Was your defence posted to this thread? It is in my original post - should have used the word "skeleton" here, as this is what he was refering too (lack of default notice etc.) - He asked me if I agreed that I entered into an agreement with Vanquis, I said yes (as didn't feel confortable lying). - Disputed the "ID Protection" £6 they have been adding monthly - he waved this from the balance Good - But added the court interestes (8%) for a period of 52 months (between the assignement of the debt up until their claim) + some court fees Section 69 Interest is normally restricted to 12 months..pity you didnt ask why the DCA had taken 52 months to decide to litigate ? Im sure it wasn't to allow the 8% to build up:!: I take that it is too late now for me to contest this? - He said I was a "reasonable chap and it would be unfair to bring judgement on me" despite the claiment saying I was unreasonable - ASked if I'd agree to pay the sum. Said I would be willing to pay the debt in installments. He imposed 3 of them on the 8th of each month starting in May. This is more than I expected so will have to find a way to make those 3 big installments in time. You should have said it will be a struggle and subject to your I&E £ xxx over 5 months would be more affordable and manageable without risk of defaulting - Failure to pay in time will entitle the claimant to bring judgement. ..Would having a CCJ be a problem ? Would making those set payment be unrealistic ? It would be at some point in the future as I'm soon going to start looking for a morgage (not this year though). Will a CCJ definitely prevent me from getting one? Not unrealistic but will be very difficult as I will be left with almost nothing once my rent and expenses have been deducted from my salary.. . 6 installments would be more realistic and ensure I don't default - Will I receive a summary of what was ordered by the judge? You should but he already confirmed the amounts and dates - Is not now totally up to me to pay in time and to Lowell to confirm they have received the installments? Correct - Not that I intend to, but what will happen if I can't make a payment in time? Will the CCJ be confirmed? Yes Will I still have the opportunity to appeal (if I have a strong case to do so)? I wouldn't - Is there any way I can discuss with Lowell further and ask to reduce the installments so I can pay in 5 times rather than 3? Ring them and ask Will do so tomorrow, thanks. Any advice on how I should approach this when I speak to them on the phone? i.e. I really don't want to default and clear the debt so would prefer 6 installments instead of 3 to ensure I don't miss payment - Any way I can contest all the interests added over the course of 4 years and 4 months since they got assigned the debt?? This is an awful lot... See above...you missed your chance Regards Andy Thanks Andy - have added my comments in green to your quoted post.
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Unfortunately, I lost However, the DJ didn't give a CCJ but instead ordered that pay sum due in 3 installments to Lowell. Failure to do so will result in the claimant being entitled to bring judgement... I'm back at work so not much time to go into details (will do so when I'm back home tonight), but in a nusthell: - Judge was very nice and accomodating. Accepted my Skeleton argument and well aware that I was "skilled" when it came to law - On the s.87 CCA point - alas he said he didn't not apply to this case as the claiment was not demanding earlier payment of any sum (s.87 (1)(b)) - So despite acknowledging that my defence was "strong" and "fair", it didn't apply in my case... can anyone confirm this? - He asked me if I agreed that I entered into an agreement with Vanquis, I said yes (as didn't feel confortable lying). - Disputed the "ID Protection" £6 they have been adding monthly - he waved this from the balance - But added the court interestes (8%) for a period of 52 months (between the assignement of the debt up until their claim) + some court fees - He said I was a "reasonable chap and it would be unfair to bring judgement on me" despite the claimant saying I was unreasonable - ASked if I'd agree to pay the sum. Said I would be willing to pay the debt in instalments. He imposed 3 of them on the 8th of each month starting in May. This is more than I expected so will have to find a way to make those 3 big installments in time - Failure to pay in time will entitle the claimant to bring judgement Overall the DJ said I made a good case but unfortunately not applicable to this claim. Funny thing was that the Solicitor was really lost and struggling to counter my argument about the lack of Default Notice and CCJ, but it didn't go further than that Have a few questions: - Will I receive a summary of what was ordered by the judge? - Is not now totally up to me to pay in time and to Lowell to confirm they have received the installments? - Not that I intend to, but what will happen if I can't make a payment in time? Will the CCJ be confirmed? Will I still have the opportunity to appeal (if I have a strong case to do so)? - Is there any way I can discuss with Lowell further and ask to reduce the installments so I can pay in 5 times rather than 3? - can contest all the interests added over the course of 4 years and 4 months since they got assigned the debt?? This is an awful lot... Any advice on next steps or comments on the result would be greatly appreciated Overall, I think it's not THAT bad of a result (ovbiously hoped to win) - I'm just trying to make it less of a weigh on my finances so I can pay with a bit more time (as in only 2 months extra). Thanks again to everyone but shamrocker and Andy specifically for all the last minute help
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Thanks both! Shall I type up the costs I'd eventually ask in a specific way? Or just itemised costs and the maths will do? Is there somewhere I could find the Woodchester v Swayne case? Can't seem to find it via a search... No worries if not, I feel like this might add to my unpreparedness despite it being of value to my defence. Keep you posted tomorrow
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Oh my, this is fantastic Andy. Invaluable. Everything is clear and much better written than my thoughts Have gone through it a few times, going to email it right away to the claimant even though we are technically the 1st. But considering how late I am already, that'll have to do... My only question is re the final point where I seek cost - what does that entail exactly? Thanks again to everyone who helped, can go to sleep in a more relaxed mood
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Ha - I do have it as I sent it registered signed for. Have been spending the last few days looking for it in my papers... but it's been challenging as I put it somewhere more than a year ago and moved house twice since then. Hoping to put my hand on it before I leave tomorrow. If I am being asked for proof, couldn't I just use the same argument, that they used about the request Notice of Assignment? As in I have requested it through my CPR, they said they sent it but "the Defendant is put to strict proof of the contrary"? Unless this is irrelevant, or I'm responsible to prove it for it to be valid? As they sort of answer to the CPR request (except for the DN) in the WS, it's not like they said that I never sent it? As they actually answer to most of the request in the WS.
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Good to know! Have done some small tweaks to the skeleton and spend quite some time reading about and getting familiar with both CPR rules the CCA 1974, particularly section 87. I feel like it's all I have time to prepare well to get a slim chance of making it out winning tomorrow. Andy, is there any chance you could help sharpening my statement? I will also log in tomorrow check if there are any new posts Going to wake up early to be as fresh and ready as I can. Will update everyone once I get out of there in case others are following this. I am the Defendant in this action.* In response to the Claimant's Witness Statement: - I requested relevant information from the Claimant under CPR rules on 26th October 2016, in particular, to get proof of a Default Notice and full disclosure of the amount the Claimant alleges to have paid for this alleged debt - To date, I have not received the requested information - In its Witness Statement (p.36), the Claimant states not having proof of a Default Notice or that one was ever sent - In its Witness Statement (p.37), the Claimant believes that the non-production of the Default Notice is not fatal to its case - Under section 87(1) of the*consumer credit*Act 1974 the Claimant must serve a default notice before they can demand payment under a regulated Credit Agreement - Failure to serve a default notice is an unlawful rescission of contract, which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt, but also allow a claim for damages - The Claimant has not provided the Default Notice necessary to maintain this action against me and thereof this action must fail as it represents a denial of the consumer rights given to me under s.87 of the act - The Claimant has not provided full disclosure of the sum claimed Conclusion In the circumstances I respectfully request that the Court makes an order that the claim be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order
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Amazing Thanks so much. They haven't supplied any evidence of the balance - only those dodgy statements from their WS. Is it a possibility that they will show up with some extra documents at the hearing? i.e. Default Notice and actual statements of the debt? I will send my skeleton to BW Legal as soon as it's finished tonight. Luckily their WS statement was sent from a normal email address. The person who sent it (and did the WS) is from the Paralegal Litigation Team - does that sound ok to send to? And I'll then hand a copy to the usher in court. Shall I give a reason why it was sent at the last minute? Thanks - will certainly be around! Going to spend my evening focusing on this and getting prepared for tomorrow (hearing is in the morning). Likely to be around till about midnight/1am (I'm a late sleeper ) Just wondering if there are any evidence/proofs/supporting documents I should take with me tomorrow beside the skeleton? Can only think of the CPR request that could be of value. Or should I print all the correspondences I sent them and the court?
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Thanks - it does build a bit of confidence! Somehow not so comfortable with the penalty charges/ID protection side of things as it eems more detailed and "complicated" than the default notice and account balance that proves the money I owe. And I am very mindful of the time I have until the hearing! So would much rather focus on the arguments I'm more confident with. If that makes sense? Here is my drafted skeleton, although was just before I saw your reply shamrocker. Any suggestion on where I should include the argument about lack of evidence of the actual account balance? [HEADER] I am the Defendant in this action. In response to the Claimant's Witness Statement: - I made a CPR request to the claiment on 26th October 2016, in particular to get proof a Default Notice - To date I have not received the requested information - In its Witness Statement (p.36), the Claimant states aknowledges now having proof of a Default Notice or that one was ever sent - In its Witness Statement (p.37), the Claimant believes that the non-production of the Default Notice is not fatal to its case - Under section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the Claimant must serve a default notice before they can demand payment under a regulated credit agreement - Failure to serve a default notice is an unlawful rescission of contract, which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt, but also allow a claim for damages - The Claimant has not provided the Default Notice necessary to maintain this action against me and thereof this action must fail as it represents a denial of the consumer rights given to me under s.87 of the act Conclusion In the circumstances I respectfully request that the Court makes an order: - That the claim against me be struck out - That the Claimant removes any and all credit reference data arising from the unenforceable debt.
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No worries - I just wasn't sure if there some hidden hints in shamrocker's question
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My bad! I did send the CPR request (phew) - attached to this thread (file was saved in a different folder). Re the interests, fess, etc. I'm not sure to fully grasp what I should do or how I should include this in my skeleton... as I barely just got my head around the Default Notice (which seems more straightforward than interests etc. ). Could you help with how I should put this into an argument for the skeleton? Or best course of action still is to focus solely on the Default Notice? Trying to PM you about this but haven't posted enough yet to do so... could you clarify this further by sending me a PM?
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I'm afraid I haven't done so... back then when I wasn't in a very good place (both in professional and personal life), I stupidly buried my hand in the sand around this matter... until their letter of claim 2 years ago!
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Nope the hidden info is my account number and the card number... no balance whatsoever! This is something I asked in my defense as well (attached to my original post): o The defendant denies the claimant is due statutory interest on the alleged amount of £1,165.05.- As such I request full disclosure of the amount the Claimant alleges to have paid for this alleged debt. Basically never got any sort of statement whatsoever that shows how the hell the debt increased that much. I believe my initial credit limit was around £100 - then went up to £200 or £300 (can't find any files supporting this as I've lost lots of posts during house moves in the last 6 years. Is this something I should include in my skeleton? If so, what would be the best way to phrase it? Don't know it that helps, but here is a copy of the CPR request I sent them. Just noticed I didn't specifically asked for the default notice but did mention that they failed to provide with a default notice in my submitted defense. Is the fact of me not asking for it in my CPR request something that will play against me? BW CPR.pdf
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