Thanks dx100uk. Not sure that I completely understand your reply, that said, thank you for taking the time to reply. I did follow your link to the GDPR thread and Subject Access Requests. I can't remember if that was the term that the ICO used. I am not sure that it would have been a SAR, my bank didn't insist that I apply in writing and ultimately it wasn't my bank that was being obtuse. Then again, it may well be the case that the guy at the ICO did indeed use the term Subject Access Request. As I said, I got a call from a 0300 number and decided to answer it, half in the expectation of it being a spam call. So is SAR a direct consequence of GDPR? If yes, it is ironic that I am using to circumnavigate Lloyd banks flawed interpretation of the Data Protection Act.

I emailed the Information Comissioner's Office for clarification. I explained the above and asked them if the DPA applies to firms. To my surprise, they phoned me today. Lloyd bank's policy of refusing to release information about corporate (ie business accounts) is incorrect. The fellow at the ICO told me I am legally entitled to ask my own bank to insist that Lloyds provide them with the info that I want. I cannot remember the name of the protocol but when i phoned my bank and explained that I had spoken to the ICO, my bank's operative spoke to a superior and confirmed that they would now start the ball rolling.dd

Hi all, Not sure if I am posting this in the correct sub forum or not... I have recently been working as a sub contractor. On Friday the home owner told me that they recently discovered that the main contractor was recently released from prison for ripping subbies and customers off. I googled his name and discovered that, yes it is it true that he want sentenced to 38 months. I have been receiving trickle payments but I now realise how much I am owned. At no point have I really known who is paying me. I can see the truncated name of the account holder on my banking app. Today i rang my bank to find the full name of the firm that has been paying me. Unfortunately they could only see the same truncated name on their system, They gave me the sort code and account number and recommended that I phone the bank that the account is held with. I rang that bank. They told me that they were not legally allowed to divulge the full name of the firm unless I submit a written "audit request" and that the said audit request will only be considered if the company in question agrees. The bank claims that the data protection act prevents them from divulging any information about the firm (including the trading name of the firm). I was under the impression that the DPA only applies to individuals and not companies. Personally I don't want to believe that he is going to rip me off. I like him but if I am being paid by a firm that doesn't actually exist I would rather know sooner than later. He has previously told me that he works for ABC123, the truncated name that appears on my banking app is ABC45 and not the ABC123a

So the penalty noticed turned up. I must confess that I am tad confused by a number of inconsistencies. To begin with, I am told that I have 14 days to pay from the date of the letter. There is no date on the letter! It arrived 8 days after I was issued the notice. Today is now 11 days since it was issued Adittionally, the cover letter says: But the FPN print out says: So the letter suggests that I only have two options- pay up or go to court. However the FPN seems to suggest something different, a third option. Does it mean that I can ask for the video footage? I am still convinced that I did not move away from the roll up and my defence remains that I had every intention of disposing of it appropriately. IF the footage shows me leaving it I will pay up immediately. Am I allowed to ask them for a copy of their by-laws? To date I am unable to find anything on their site that says that dropping a cigarette to extinguish it and then disposing of it is an offence. As mentioned in an earlier post, Ealing's telephone support refuses to give direct answers. The FPN mentions the Environmental Protection Act (1990) and Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act (2005) rather than pointing to specific by-laws, so which takes precedent? The law handed down by DEFRA or Ealing Council's interpretation of it?

According to DEFRA "If the authority is to offer an ‘informal’ appeals process (there is no legal requirement for one), it should set out the grounds when an appeal will be considered and how it will be decided." AFAIK the only way of appealing is to go to court. Given that the maximum fine is £2500 and a criminal record, and the fact that neither the government (DEFRA) or the LA (Ealing council) seem to be willing to provide definitions of "litter", I would imagine that most people will just pay up. It may well be the case that the majority of people handed notices are content that they are "guilty", I still believe that I gave no reason to assume that I had intended to act inappropriately. I would definitely have engaged in an "informal" appeals process, but I am denied the opportunity. What is the point of allowing impartial 3rd parties to stand in the way of money for old rope? The only party that stands to gain here is the independent security firm (one which has received negative press coverage in the past). Ealing will potentially end up receiving a lot of negative will, and many innocent people will suffer both financially and emotionally.

Appeals processes are voluntary. Councils do not have to offer informal appeals. See the DEFRA link in my long post. I suspect that in the issue of parking/driving offences, they only allow then because of the potential public backlash. Regarding litter, if you can convince the public that you are pursuing hardened criminals, there will be less opposition

My GF rang DEFRA looking for clarity as to whether dropping a roll up and then disposing of it is an offence. They declined to answer and told her to contact the Local Authority. My GF rang the Ealing Council. She asked them, they declined to answer. She then asked other more specific questions, such as, if sitting at a table on the high street outside a cafe that has no ashtray, is it an offence to drop a cigarette and then pick it up after you have finished your drink. The answer? It is at the discretion of the enforcement officer. So I still do not if I have broken a bylaw or not, if the penalty was issued in error or not. In short it is impossible for me to make an informed decision with regard to contesting the case. We seem to have a situation where the Ealing council are happy to let private contractors (who have a vested interest in handing out fines) decide what is and isn't legal. This is Kafka-esque.

I too do not like litter. The fact that I am accused of leaving litter does not mean that I am actually guilty or that I think discarding cigarette butts is acceptable. I see the actions of the private company as being the thin edge of the wedge

I smoke I do not and have never owned a driving licence. Am I able to take the higher moral ground with regard to pollution? I am a 40 something year old who never knowingly leaves litter behind. I go through life trying to treat others as I would hope that they treat me. I try to be fair and reasonable. I went to bed at 10.30 last night, with the expectation of getting up about 5.37am. I could not sleep. I got up. I went back to bed. I kept waking up. When I eventually got out of bed ,I was freezing because my t-shirt was covered in sweat. It was so cold that I had to remove it. Am I really the kind of person that you want to be criminalised? I went to work today. I could not concentrate, I earned eff all . Call me a girl if you want but I am extremely upset about the situation. By and large ,I try to be the sort of person that improves the lives of other people and that has a positive contribution. You are perfectly entitled to damn me because I participate in an activity that you don't like. I do not, and have not found your responses to be particularly helpful though. I came to this site in the hope of receiving legal advice. I did not expect to be maligned for the sins of others. I suggest that you try to explore the differences between roll up smokers and those that smoke pre-made cigarettes. My experience of using websites suggests that you won't though. To that end, please feel free to assume that I deserve to become bankrupt/ go to jail and devote your time to maligning someone else.

So I have not committed an offence but I am probably better off taking a slap on the wrists because Ealing Council have decided that they would rather not offer people the opportunity to make informal appeal (and are possibly hoping that most people are to scared to go to court)?

Would I have been committing an offence if I let it on the floor for long enough to extinguish itself and then picked it up without leaving it at any point? Which is exactly what infact happened. There is nothing to prove that that was not my intention

After having replayed the incident in my head. I honestly believe that he intentionally grabbed my attention to distract me from either stubbing it out with my shoe and then picking it up or grinding it into oblivion. I was still standing over it at all times.

Well according to the following I am bang to rights (assuming that the following is correct or that I have understood it). http://kb.keepbritaintidy.org/smokinglitter/legislation/legis.pdf I think that means that dropping a cigarette anywhere outdoors is an offence, which presumably would include my own garden, a pub garden and so on. "and then leave litter"? As soon as the agent saw me drop it he grabbed my attention, I was still standing over it. Once he mentioned it, I picked it up. Am I legally obliged to prove that had no intention of leaving an item as litter, or does his organisation have to prove that I intended to leave it? and had I been left to grind it away until it became virtually invisible to the human eye, is it still litter? "It is a criminal offence"- So I am now a criminal? Well they can't chuck that at me The following lays out DEFRA's guidance to local authorities http://www.cleanhighways.co.uk/legislation/guidance-on-the-use-of-fixed-penalty-notices Defra recommend that agents should wear hi-visibility jackets, that those accused should be cautioned. The guy had a black coat, he didn't caution me but did tell me twice that he was recording me. Defra do not stipulate that there has to be an informal appeals process. Failure to give correct details is a criminal offence, however (even though I did) I did not legally have to provide proof of ID or my date of birth And again we go back to the question of intent

I guess that there are some people here that consider that I got my just deserts. My GF has done some research on my behalf and seems to think that one can not appeal against the penalty. You can reserve the right to go to court though, which is probably more money than I can afford to lose. AFAIK the penalty is a fixed £80, with no discount for paying early and not contesting the charge, unlike parking infractions. Is this standard practice? Or is it more likely to be the case that the private enforcement firm would not be interested in lower penalty charges. Additionally is anyone aware of any other councils that use these kind of firms to hand out litter penalty charge notices.

I did think that might be the case. I was walking in to a shop, and would have exit via the entry.