thanks to Hardup for pointing to Pinkys thread, very clear instructions from all can be found and it makes a very interesting Sunday morning read Taking Pinky's letter I have copied/amended and propose sending the below on Monday back to Robinson Way, can I ask if this seems like the best next step? N.B - the date they advise the account was defaulted was 12 January 2006 - does this mean different terms for the content/layout of a Default Notice where different i.e. less than 14 days? Dear XXXXXXX, Your ref: xxxxxxxxx Capital One Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I write in connection with a credit card account referenced above which is in dispute. I do not acknowledge any debt to Capital One or to any company affiliated with the original creditor, namely you Robinson Way. This is in response to your letter dated 9th June 2010 where you advised a copy of the default notice could not be recreated. I must advise I did not request a recreated version of the Default Notice but a true copy of the Default Notice I had supposedly received. In March 2010 I requested a copy of all information relating to Capital One and your company Robinson Way. I received until now nothing that resembles a signed credit agreement a true copy of the default notice or termination letter. Account statements from the original creditor have also not been supplied. The copies of the default notice that would have been sent and the failure to fulfil the requirements for a copy of an executed agreement under the terms of the Act and is unenforceable in law. What you provided in your latest correspondence is purely a screenshot of an account status and does not conform to the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983. A credit card agreement must have the prescribed terms (credit limit, interest rate, and repayment schedule) within the same 4 corners of the agreement as the signature box. This screenshot has no prescribed terms and no terms and conditions whatsoever let alone a signature. Due to the lack of information presented from your company and Capital One including but not limited to failing to supply any documentation containing my express written permission to process my personal data in connection with this disputed account your company and Capital One are in clear breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. Furthermore, according to your latest correspondence, if a Default Notice was sent by Capital One in the form laid out in template default notice you provided in your latest correspondence then they have sent me an invalid Default Notice in connection with this disputed account. The date by which to remedy the breach of the alleged agreement is given on the Notice as 10 days from the date on the letter when in fact under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the time that must be given to remedy a breach of agreement is 14 days after the date of service. The date of service in law is deemed to be 2 days after the date on the Notice if it was if sent by 1st Class post and 4 days after the date on the Notice if it was sent by 2nd class post. There then must be 14 clear days after the date of service allowed to remedy the breach. All the original creditor did was set a date 10 days from the date on the letter, rendering the Notice unlawful as it did not allow sufficient time for the alleged breach to be remedied. The original creditor then terminated the alleged agreement, unlawfully rescinding the disputed account. The original creditor then entered an unlawful default on my credit reports as they did not serve me with a valid Default Notice before terminating the disputed account. The Information Commissioner is clear that all entries to credit reference reports must be made in accordance with a recognised industry standard. The original creditor actions have in my case not only fallen well short of the recognised standard but have been in clear breach of the consumer credit and data protection laws. Unless the original creditor or Robinson Way can provide me with documentation in which I gave either of them my express written permission to process my personal data, I require them to cease all use of my personal data with immediate effect and remove all entries from my credit reference report, this also applies to Robinson Way. It will not be good enough to assert that I must have signed any agreement – I require clear documentary proof of written permission. Robinson Way has 21 days to reply and action as necessary. Failure to do so will result in further action from me, including but not limited to, formal complaints to the Information Commissioner and the Office of Fair Trading Consumer Credit Licence Fitness Department reference gross misuse of my personal data and blatant breaches of the consumer credit laws. I look forward to hearing from you. If there is anything about this letter you do not understand I advise you to consult a solicitor. Yours sincerely > cc Experian cc Equifax cc Call Credit Note to the credit reference agencies : You are jointly responsible for entering an unlawful default entry into my credit report in connection with this disputed account and your actions will form part of my complaint to the regulatory bodies if such action is required. This letter contains 2 pages.

I have not recieved the termination letter, I did ask Robbersway to provide copies of Agreement, T&C, DN and Termination Letter, to which they have advised... "I have been in contact with Capital One regarding obtaining a copy of the default notice that you were sent. Unfortunately, a default notice cannot be recreated so a copy of the default notice layout and your account details are attached"

So upate time... I recieved what were to be statements from Robbersway that just showed the debt they bought from Crap1. I advised them that I required all the information so they went back to the OC. I recieved a letter which advises that they cannot supply a copy of the original DN but they have given me the template DN that would have been issued to me (see below) and a screenshot of what looked like an account. So, the DN states (will type it out as I have no scanner) 00/00/0000 Dear Account number: > Please pay > now IMPORTANT - YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY Notice of Default server under section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 You have breached your Capital One Credit Card Agreement by failing to pay us the minimum monthly repayments described in clause 8 of the agreement. You must pay the amount overdue, shown above, within 10 days of the date of this letter. IF THE FURTHER ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ACTION BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU OR A SURETY.* 1. We will terminate your account and issue you with a Statement of Default. This means you will permanently lose your account and all spending privileges on your card 2. You will have to pay the who balance immediately. And we may add any reasonable costs we incur recovering the amount owed. 3. We will notify the credit reference agencies that you have defaulted on your agreement, this may affect your ability to obtain credit from other lenders. 4. We may place your account a debt collectin agency, which may use dooor-to-door collectors and add additional costs to the amount owed. 5. We may take court proceedings to recover all sums owed to us. 6. We will use any security deposit you may have paid when opening your account against your outstanding balance. ------ So I also recieved a copy of what would have been a blank ternination letter. So far, I have no original agreement, no copy of the DN, no Termination letter and a whole load of Robbersway information on 'thier' account details of me.The 'copy' of the template DN they said would have been issued does not have a letter head or anything. So what would be my advised best next course of action? Should I just go back to Robbersway and advise that the information supplied is not substantiated from my SAR request? Do I send Robbersway the LBA letter? the CRA have Robbersway as the company who own the default. Robbersway advised me that when they purchased the account from Crap1, the default I had will show up as Robbersway as they bought the account in it's entirity. any help please?

awesome, we have been paying Loweel for another debt (Aqua card fromthe wife) we have £11 to pay at the end of this month. Have requested out of courtesy if they would remove the default on full settlement, they sent me the automated mail about being legally obliged bla bla bla, so I think I am going to go against my own grain and say sod em on 02, they haven't bothered for near 6 years so ping pong it is with every letter going to them stating 'I acknowledge no debt to you on this account' See what happens

cerb, as always thank you for the swift response on clear answers. I maybe didn't make myself clear, they are chasing a debt for around £442, but have advised the last payment on the account was made 25th October 2004. I since then have not heard from anyone or made any payments either to 02 or Lowell.

Hi I had a letter today from Friedrikson. They advised they are collecting on behalf of Lowell for an 02 account I had back in 2004. Now when I called Friedrikson and asked simply 'who owns the entirety of this debt' they advised Lowell. So called Lowell and they said this is an O2 account to which they own all the rights. I immediately advised that I do NOT acknowledge any debt to them regarding this account. I then said that this account must surely be statute barred. They advised details on the date the contract was taken out and that a payment was made on the 25th October 2004 for £31.66. I have had no further contact or made any payments, I do not even recall making the payment they advise. Now, not my style to notpay a debt if I owe, but is this a phishing attempt? Lowell swiftly responded with 'if you are not acknowledging this debt we will have to send all the relevent information on the account' If I just left this and done nothing, if they didn't take me to court by October 25th 2010, does the statute barred legislation come into effect? Do I then not have to worry about the debt being enforcable? Or do you recommend I CCA them, then SAR them and see what they have up their sleeve? thanks

DD - thanks for your response, with all respect, I have read so much I have information overload. Am I to understand that the CPR is to be requested when a creditor is taking me to court? OR when I am trying to claim against whatever credit establishment for illegal charges? Sorry for my non understanding, hence my post above requesting whether proceedings need to have started. I merely want a copy of the true signed agreement to see whether I should even contemplate taking any action.

oh damn, so I just wasted £10 to RW? If RW bought the debt, shouldn't they (if they do not have it) send a request to the OC for the information they do not have?

I have an account with Robinson Way which they purchased from Crap1 I have had recent correspondence from CapQuest advising me that thier client (RW) has advised them to collect the debt (lol) Anyway, I have sent a SAR request to RobbersWay on the 29th March and have the Proof of Delivery from 31st March. Today, I have received a letter from HL Legal Solicitors advising that CapQuest has appointed them on behalf of Robinson Way. Now they are threatening for full settlement or satisfactory proposal before 20th April 2010 court proceedings 'may' be issued against me. So, questions... Can CapQuest pass on my information whilst I am waiting for the SAR details from RobberWay? Can they proceed with the 'threats' of court proceedings from HL Legal Solicitors? I advised CapQuest on the 29th March that I had sent a SAR request to RobbersWay, I called them up today and asked them to read out the last note on my account, CapQuest answered 'We see you have sent a SAR request, but we haven't recieved it', to which I answered 'I sent the SAR to RW and not you as RW have bought the debt and not CQ', he responded, 'Oh I understand, we will cease all action on this account for 30 days', I replied, 'You will cease all action on this account until such a time as RW have complied to my SAR Request, goodbye' So, should I file this letter from the Solicitors incase I run out of toilet paper or do I respond to them now advising a SAR has been sent to RW??

bump

thanks DD for the response. Can I ask someone have a very quick look at my thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/255094-rbs-cca-correct.html Just want to know if I should use CPR instead of continuing along the CCA 77/78 route, reading this thread has made it clear in the OP that it is actually a waste of time continuing down the route I have. appreciate any responses on my thread in advance

cerb, also in my earlier post you asked if I signed the agreement on the premises. On discussing with my wife the progress in this thread, she advised me that she DID indeed bring the agreement at the time to me at my workplace for me to sign! - What is the legislation behind your question in regards to this? I personally cannot validate this as I really cannot remember, but I would have no reason to doubt my wife. It may have been an agreement that she signed in the bank or sent to us in the post, neither of us can remember. Bit more information, the loan was to repay the overdraft. I can recall we were able to increase the OD time and time again and the bank obliged, until such a point as we were 'told' we had to take a loan as they were not increasing it any more. I believe the limit of the OD at the time was £1800. When the agreement was drawn up, we were not even advised around the PPI but sold the loan and policy in such a way to the effect... ....you are paying back in a loan much less than the charges for the OD and the bank do not want to manage your account when it is constantly over drawn... They pitched it in a way that it was 'necessary' to take the loan.

Can I ask whether I should follow the advice from PT in the above linked thread. If so should I request via CPR 31.16 or CPR 31.14?

can I ask for clarification on CPR 31.22 (1) If I request for the agreement under 31.16 I must I have started proceedings? Subsequent use of disclosed documents 31.22 (1) A party to whom a document has been disclosed may use the document only for the purpose of the proceedings in which it is disclosed, except where – (a) the document has been read to or by the court, or referred to, at a hearing which has been held in public; (b) the court gives permission; or © the party who disclosed the document and the person to whom the document belongs agree. (2) The court may make an order restricting or prohibiting the use of a document which has been disclosed, even where the document has been read to or by the court, or referred to, at a hearing which has been held in public. (3) An application for such an order may be made – (a) by a party; or (b) by any person to whom the document belongs.

thanks for your response, I also found this thread here that I should seriously consider now or should I send the letter in as written above in my earlier post #8?