Good luck will watch with interest ....

Guys If there is one thing I've learned since the credit crunch started then its that you cant believe the media. The £850bn is not a cost that will never be recovered; 1) purchased £37bn of shares in RBS and Lloyds Banking Group and, in November 2009, agreed to purchase up to an additional £39bn of shares in both banks. THESE SHARES HAVE REAL VALUE AND THE GOVERNMENT IS LIKELY TO GET THEIR MONEY BACK AND MAKE A PROFIT. 2) protected the Bank of England against losses by providing over £200bn of liquidity support. THESE WERE SHORT TERM LOANS TO THE BANKS BACKED BY ASSETS AND IN MANY CASES THE LOANS HAVE ALREADY BEEN REPAID 3) agreed to guarantee up to £250bn of borrowing by banks AS STATED THESE WERE GUARANTEES (THAT HAVENT BEEN CALLED). 4) provided approximately £40bn of loans and other funding to building society Bradford & Bingley - those assets not sold to Spain's Santander - and the Financial Services Compensation Scheme AGAIN THESE ARE LOANS BACKED BY ASSETS FROM B&B. THE MONEY WILL BE REPAID AS B&B'S LOAN BOOK S UNWOUND 5) agreed in principle to provide insurance for over £600bn of bank assets, reduced to just over £280bn in November 2009. THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST RISKY PART OF THE PACKAGE BUT AGAIN ITS ASSET BACKED AND VERY UNLIKELY THAT THE FULL AMOUNT WILL BE LOST. RBS is one of the largest small business lenders in the country - if you let it go to the wall then what would these businesses have done. What about all the people that had savings with RBS ? S

Wahey just noticed that was my 500th post...

I'm with Scaniaman. I paid £600 last year for 4 returnsd from glasgow to prestwick it was all fine - the next cheapest price I could get was £1350 with globespan. I flew with them half a dozen times last year to paris and again pretty cheap and always on time. I've also booked for Paris in January - a grand total of £48 for 4 people return including tax (but no check in bags as its only an overnighter). They are now the biggest airline in Europe - they must be doing something right but if you dont like the no frills then vote with your feet.....

This is simplistic in the extreme. The banks dont just magic the cash into thin air - there are consequences in terms of ; 1. Liquidity 2. Capital

Great, your voice would be heard and we'll do away with money and reintroduce bartering to pay for goods.....

Good luck everyone. Not sure if I will sleep tonight but I know that I definitely wont sleep tomorrow night if we lose .....

To be pedantic - HBOS is owned by Lloyds. The Government has a 40% stake in Lloyds.

Bank customers in line for £6bn refund of overdraft charges - Times Online "The banks have lost two High Court judgments on the matter and so have taken the case to the Supreme Court, Britain’s highest court, established last month. Treasury officials told The Sunday Times that the banks would be pushed to negotiate a settlement after the verdict, rather than pursue the matter through the European courts if they lost." "A Treasury source said: “The government will be looking to settle the matter out of court rather than allow the banks to drag the process through the legal system, which could take several years before a satisfactory outcome.” Treasury officials have had discussions with the banks about a settlement, though payouts may still not occur for several months. The British Bankers’ Association said it was in discussions with the Financial Services Authority, the City watchdog, on the issue. “We have been discussing the process with the authorities from the beginning, and we will continue to do so,” the association said." As I've said for a while I think a negotiated settlement is definitely where this will end up - I know Your Bank doesnt think this is possible but if neccesary the government will bring in retrospective legislation that makes it possible.

I do think there will be negotiated settlement here. My prediction; 1. OFT win this part of the test case. 2. "Fair" level of fee is fudged by the banks and OFT at £5 3. Automatic refunds issued for the original charge less £5 4. if anyone wants more than that they have to go to court (I.E. refund of interest paid on the charges) 5. banks happy as they get to keep part of their ill gotten gains 6. most consumers happy because they get a nice little windfall

No surprises. BBC News - Banks 'are charging sneaky fees' claims Which?

THE DSB bank is an example of exactly how people power can work in practice. For those that havent heard of this one - basically an activist was so disturbed by some of the bank's lending practices that he called on consumers to withdraw their deposits and close their accounts. Many customers did exactly that and the bank collapsed..... The DSB Bank debacle ? a timeline | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Yourbank - You have too much time on your hands, I'm with bookie.

Quite an interesting article about recent legislation against penalty cahrges in the US. Obviously of no legal impact to us but still interesting.... FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - Fed bans unauthorised overdraft charges

Lloyds appear to have recently agreed terms with HM Treasury for a rights issue which will mean that they raise probably £15bn new capital from investors and then avoid going into the Government Asset Protection Scheme (all very complicated). Interestingly, as part of the conditions, HM Treasury have said that Lloyds need to have £7bn of additional "contingency" capital. I've read somewhere recently that the estimate of total bank charges refund which could be due in the UK is around £20bn. Lloyds have about a third of the UK current account market and £7bn is about a third of £20bn...... Is this wishful thinking on my part or are HM Treasury lining Lloyds up for refunds ????