Credit Ref Agency reply to DPA s.12 request-help please

[Number6]

Following on from Surlybonds posts in the "Default Hell" thread RE: automated data processing I wrote to Experian, Equifax and CallCredit demanding that they remove my data from their automatic processing routines.

 

I have just had a reply from Experian (first one to reply) basically sticking two fingers up to me. The full text of their reply is as follows. Would anyone like to comment? What should I do now?

 

Thank you for your letter dated 17 August 2006 that we received on 21 August 2006. Your correspondence has been brought to my attention in the Directors' Office.

 

I acknowledge your request under Section 12(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998, which allows an individual to insist on the removal of any and all data from automated processes in respect of matters relating to them.

I am fully aware of the legislation that you kindly quoted in your letter, which is detailed below for your reference.

 

12. - (1) An individual is entitled at any time, by notice in writing to any data controller, to require the data controller to ensure that no decision taken by or on behalfofthe data controller which significantly affects that individual is based solely on the processing by automatic means of personal data in respect of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct.

 

As a credit reference agency, Experian does not make any automated decisions with regards your creditworthiness or any of the other criteria that are specified within Section 12(1). Consequently, we do not have to comply with your request to remove the information that we process by automatic means. This is because we are not making any decisions about the information that we obtain and process via automated systems.

 

I have highlighted the relevant part of Section 12(1) that clarifies that it is only when a decision is made by automated processing that you are entitled to the information to be removed from that automated process.

 

I would like to clarify that our role is to give lenders factual information about you when you apply for credit. This helps lenders as it enables them to review your current and previous credit agreements but also benefits the applicant as they can be granted credit facilities instantly rather than having to prove that they have a good financial history every time they make an application.

 

When a lender asks to see the information we hold, we do not offer any comment or advice. Lenders use the information we give them, along with the information you give on a credit application form, to help them decide whether or not to lend. We are not told if the information we have provided has affected the lending decision or, in fact, what that decision is.

 

If you have been declined for financial services and the lender concerned confirms that the decision was made via an automated process then you do have the right to appeal against that decision and request that your application is manually reviewed.

 

You may wish to quote the legislation you referred to in your letter in support of any request that you may make to a lender for a manual assessment. Furthermore, you may also like to note that if you add an explailatory statement to your credit report, this will automatically mean that your credit application must be manually viewed prior to completion of any automated assessment.

 

You can add a short explanatory statement to your report to make sure that future lenders are aware of your comments. This is called a 'Notice of Correction'. Anyone looking at your report in the future will see your comments and should take them into account before making a lending decision.

 

If you would like to add a 'Notice of Correction' to your credit report, please let us know the exact wording you would like to use. We cannot add a statement that is longer than 200 words or one that we think is defamatory, frivolous, scandalous or unsuitable for publication for some other reason.

 

Before you are permitted to add a 'Notice of Correction' to your report, you must firstly obtain a copy of your credit report detailing the information that we hold about you that lenders view when you apply for credit. I am enclosing an application form for you to complete and return should you wish to take up this option.

 

It is also stipulated within Section 5 (principles of Decision-Making) of 'The Guide to Credit Scoring 2000', that the applicant can appeal for a manual decision to be made if they have been declined purely by means of an automated scoring process.

 

You might wish to view 'The Guide to Credit Scoring 2000', in particular Section 5-7, if you wish to see this in full. You can find this on the Experian website at:

Credit Scoring | Experian UK

 

In your letter you also refer to the Human Rights Act 1998. This Act requires all 'public authorities' to act compatibly with the rights contained in Schedule 1 of the Act. As Experian is a private company and not a public body, the Human Rights Act 1998 does not directly affect the work we do.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Data Protection Act 1998 strictly control the personal information that we hold. Both laws give you specific rights and make sure we deal with your information carefully and fairly.

 

If you have any further queries please feel free to contact me directly either bye-mail at [email protected] or by telephone on 0115 905 5452. Alternatively, you can write to me at the following address:

 

Directors' Office, Consumer Help Service, Experian Ltd, PO Box 8000, Nottingham, NG80 7WF

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mr Paul Lever

Consumer Compliance Executive Directors' Office

[ANNALH]

Hi Worcester4x4,

 

yes its exactly the same. What do we do now?

[Number6]

Hi Worcester4x4,

 

yes its exactly the same. What do we do now?

 

Don't know about you but I'm waiting for someone who knows about these things to make a comment!

 

I personally haven't a clue where to go from here.

 

Pete

[bongobaz]

i sent all 3 cra the template and heard nothing so sent a reminer with a 7 day deadline and still heard nothing.

so i have just been on iformation comissioners offices web site and put in a formal complaint about all 3!

see what happens next!

[Tinkerbelle]

I think you guys have misunderstood the template letter.

 

The template letter is aimed at the Organisation who you want to stop processing your data. NOT the CRA's.

 

e.g. Cutomer A asks Tesco Credit Card to stop processing their data to the CRA's. If the Tesco Credit Card stop sending Customer A data to the CRA, then they have nothing to process/show do they?

 

I would suggest that you guys read the Default Hell thread again. As well as the other sticky by SurlyBonds. There is a lot of information here than can get confusing if the basics are not understood, and the questions I am reading here indicate to me that people are jumping in with both feet, without fully understanding what needs to be done, by who and to who.

 

At no point have I read that anyone has successfuly asked a CRA to stop processing all their data. It has been suggested that they have no legal right to pass on your information - but from what I can see no one has tested this "blanket ban on all data" from the CRA's.

 

Unless your credit file is completely shot to pieces then I cannot understand why anyone would want a Blanket ban on all the information - personally I cannot see that being of any benefit.

 

I think it would be better if people concentrated on dealing with the odd one or two defaults on their file and leave it at that.

[lickthewallfatboy]

Tinkerbelle

I have definitely read a thread about a letter to send to the CRA's to stop the automated processing of your information to every tom dick and harry who runs a credit check on you.The letter requests the CRA's to process the data manually and not to leave it open for all to see.

[Number6]

I think you guys have misunderstood the template letter.

 

The template letter is aimed at the Organisation who you want to stop processing your data. NOT the CRA's.

 

 

I don't think I have misunderstood.

 

If you look at Surlybonds original post:

 

Okay, what does it mean in English...

Whilst credit ref agencies can store the data, you (and only you...not them... YOU, the "individual"/data subject/etc) can decide if you want that data to be included in any automated processes which includes the automatic reference transactions that banks and Co. send through for ref checks.

 

You may, if you so wish, ...(and the agencies can't do diddly-squat about it)... insist that your data is excluded from the automation process, and that it can only be utilised within manual reference purposes... which by the way, none of the agencies have the ability to process.

 

If you think I'm joking, I've done it for all three of the ref agencies, and they've all had to remove all my data from the automation process because I threatened them with a Court Order if they failed to do so.

 

So, what happens in reality. Well, maybe try what I did...

 

1) Send them a recorded delivery letter along these lines...

"Dear Sirs,

 

This is a formal notice, served under the provisions of Chapter 29 of the Data Protection Act 1998 in requesting that you conform to my demand for a change in the manner in which you hold and process subject data about me.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Schedule II, Section 12 (1) of the said Act allows all data subjects the right to insist on the removal of any and all data from automated processes in repsect of matters relating to them. I have reproduced that clause for your information, in case you do not have a copy to hand:

[insert clause from above in quotes].

 

You will note the exact language of the Act, in that such a request may be made in relation to a number of different reference checks "which significantly affects that individual", and the Acts specifically cites "credit worthiness" as one of those examples.

 

Recent checks on my file have caused severe complications, and now "significantly affect" my everyday life, and that of my family. An additional point to note is that issues of this nature that adversely affect "normal family life" are in breach of the Human Rights Act.

 

Therefore, you have seven days from receipt of this letter to remove all such data from your system where it is referenced and processed via automated processes. You will obviously need to transfer it to your manual process system and alert your customers that my data can no longer be searched via an automatic process.

 

I look forward to receiving your confirmation that the above change has been made to my file at the end of that seven day period.

 

To that end, I look forward to receiving your confirmation by close of business of ...[date it nine days hence to give them time].

 

Yours, etc"

 

I did this to Experian, Equifax and myCallCredit last month. Equifax argued the toss initially, then I issued an N1 Court Form against them, and as soon as they got that they capitulated. By the way, they also had to pay the Court fee.

 

Of course, they don't actually have anything on their system that can manage a manual intervention on a credit check, so they have to bar all the data from being read.

 

Note the bits in bold italics. This was clearly aimed at the CRA's

 

:? :? :? :?

 

Pete

[lickthewallfatboy]

that's the one!!

[Number6]

So do I now write straight back to Experian and threaten them with court action? Is there a template letter I can use for this?

 

Do I just start court action now anyway?

 

If / when I do start court action what exactly do I do? Can I do it on moneyclaimonline (I think not) or do I go to my local county court?

 

Which form do I use and what form of words do I put in the claim?

 

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in anticipation guys and gals.

 

Pete

[Number6]

By the way, does anyone know if the Human Rights Act only applies to Public Bodies as Experian are claiming? Sounds like a load of tosh to me!

 

Pete

[Number6]

OK, either no-one knows the answer or they're not around to answer.

 

Anyone know if Surlybonds is around, or away on holiday? It would be good to know exactly what he did when, as he put it, Equifax argued the toss.

 

Pete

[Tinkerbelle]

Ok, I stand correct.

 

However, I'm still suggesting it would be better to get the company who is sending your data to the CRA to stop processing your data to the CRA, and asking them to get the CRA to remove data they currently hold seeing as they sent it to them in the first place!

 

Personally I can't see it being a good thing to have your credit file turn up blank when a search is performed on it. :?

 

If you haven't mentioned anything about taking the CRA to court in your first letter, then I would suggest that you send them another letter reminding them of your request, and telling them that you will take Court Action if they do not comply within x days. If they haven't complied within x days, then it's Court.

 

If you have already mentiond court in your original letter, then go ahead and do what you threatened them with.

 

There is no template letter as far as I can see, how about you writing one and posting it back on the site?

 

Good luck!

[Number6]

Personally I can't see it being a good thing to have your credit file turn up blank when a search is performed on it.

 

I don't know whether it is or isn't a good thing and this action is partly by way of an experiment to see what happens. Once I get the CRA's to blank the file then I'll apply for some form of credit and see what happens.

 

As to posting a template, I would willingly but I don't know what to write now. I have an idea but I would really like to see what Surlybonds did and wrote as a) he sems to know what he's talking about and b) he's already succesfully taken this course of action so his letters / actions are proven to work.

 

Pete

[Number6]

OK, in the absense of any information to the contrary I intend to send the folling letter to Experian:

 

"Dear Mr Lever,

 

Thank you for your reply dated 22nd August, your ref: ********.

 

I do not agree that you do not have to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998, Section 12 (1).

 

I repeat my request that within seven days you remove any and all of my personal data from your system where it is referenced and processed via automated processes.

 

If I do not receive your written reply confirming that you have done this by Monday 4th September then I will, without further notice commence court action against Experian in order to enforce your compliance. You may then be liable for costs associated with any action. I will also issue a complaint to the Information Commissioner and to the Trading Standards Service.

 

Yours etc."

 

Is this OK

[bongobaz]

OK, in the absense of any information to the contrary I intend to send the folling letter to Experian:

 

"Dear Mr Lever,

 

Thank you for your reply dated 22nd August, your ref: ********.

 

I do not agree that you do not have to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998, Section 12 (1).

 

I repeat my request that within seven days you remove any and all of my personal data from your system where it is referenced and processed via automated processes.

 

If I do not receive your written reply confirming that you have done this by Monday 4th September then I will, without further notice commence court action against Experian in order to enforce your compliance. You may then be liable for costs associated with any action. I will also issue a complaint to the Information Commissioner and to the Trading Standards Service.

 

Yours etc."

 

Is this OK

 

sounds good to me!

 

im in same boat so yesterday i reported all 3 cra to the ico!

[jo5ephedward5]

would i be right in thinking that a blank file just hides who you owe and how much etc - if this is the case i'm sure your credit score will still come up?

 

I use checkmyfile.com - Credit reference, Credit file, Credit score you get all 3 reports

 

the experian reports have no creditor information just a score (ironically teh lowest of them all!)...when i asked why this was they said it was as this is what a creditor will see - i think by removing all your data from view it will still be there to generat a score you just wont be able to see it...thus actually putting you in a worse position?

 

just my opinion - note this opinion could change at n e time

[Number6]

would i be right in thinking that a blank file just hides who you owe and how much etc - if this is the case i'm sure your credit score will still come up?

 

I use checkmyfile.com - Credit reference, Credit file, Credit score you get all 3 reports

 

the experian reports have no creditor information just a score (ironically teh lowest of them all!)...when i asked why this was they said it was as this is what a creditor will see - i think by removing all your data from view it will still be there to generat a score you just wont be able to see it...thus actually putting you in a worse position?

 

just my opinion - note this opinion could change at n e time

 

You could be right. But OTOH the personal information should be removed from any automated searches, to me this means that either 1) everything including your credit score is hddenor 2) just your information is hidden which in itself means that any prospective lender would have no data by which to generate a score.

 

Anyway, we shall see if and when I get them to comply.

 

Pete

[jo5ephedward5]

Will be interesting to see the outcome of this...

 

I understand the score is already on the file tho...i assumed that each lender have there own scoring system but i'm begining to this the refernce agents create this score (as you can get it online from all 3 CRA's) and the lenders just have different thresholds etc...

 

I think (IMO) if you remove your info they will still calculate the score its just you wont be able to see how they did it?

 

Looking forward to someone getting somewhere with this - good luck.

[Number6]

Will be interesting to see the outcome of this...

 

I understand the score is already on the file tho...i assumed that each lender have there own scoring system but i'm begining to this the refernce agents create this score (as you can get it online from all 3 CRA's) and the lenders just have different thresholds etc...

 

I think (IMO) if you remove your info they will still calculate the score its just you wont be able to see how they did it?

 

Looking forward to someone getting somewhere with this - good luck.

 

The information held by the CRA's changes regularly as new data gets supplied by the creditors so the score must be worked out every time an enquiry is made. Also, as the number of searches of your credit file is itself a factor in calculating the credit score then this must be so. Therfore, if the data is not available to automated search routines then no credit score can be produced. The score itself cannot be held in a dummy file because the CRA would then be giving out misinformation.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

Pete

[Number6]

Reply received today from Equifax. The salient paragraph in amongst a load of guff is:

 

"I acknowledge your request for Equifax to prevent lenders from searching your credit file however I would like to advise should you apply for credit with a company it is necessasry for that company to carry out a credit search therefore, as a Credit Reference Agency Equifax must provide this information and cannot prevent any company from accessing your information automatically"

 

They must provide this information?????

 

They cannot prevent any company accessing my information??????

 

Who on earth do they think they are?

 

Pete

[Tinkerbelle]

Reply received today from Equifax. The salient paragraph in amongst a load of guff is:

 

"I acknowledge your request for Equifax to prevent lenders from searching your credit file however I would like to advise should you apply for credit with a company it is necessasry for that company to carry out a credit search therefore, as a Credit Reference Agency Equifax must provide this information and cannot prevent any company from accessing your information automatically"

 

They must provide this information?????

 

They cannot prevent any company accessing my information??????

 

Who on earth do they think they are?

 

Pete

 

Ask them where the legislation is that states that they are required by law to do this, and tell them you want them to quote chapter and verse

[Number6]

I'm just in the process of drafting such a letter. Be very interesting to see their reply!!

 

Pete

[Tinkerbelle]

I'm just in the process of drafting such a letter. Be very interesting to see their reply!!

 

Pete

 

I would be very interested in seeing their reply too. These people make me sick. I've just had to send a letter to the OUSBA pulling their poxy T&C apart

 

I don't know who they think they are - last time I checked we were living in a democracy with rights

[Number6]

I've just drafted the following reply. Does it look suitable?

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

You state in your reply:

 

“…Equifax must provide this information and can not prevent any company from accessing my information”

 

Please inform me what Statute(s) or Act(s) of Parliament states that a credit reference agency “must” provide information. I am unaware of any such statutory provision.

 

Please also explain why you are unable to prevent my data being automatically searched when Part 2, Section 12(1) of the Data Protection Act clearly states that I can demand such a bar? Please inform me what Statute(s) or Act(s) of Parliament allows you to circumvent the data Protection Act.

 

In both instances please quote the title(s) of the relevant Act(s) or Statute(s) and identify the relevant section(s) and paragraph(s).

 

I look forward to receiving your reply within seven days. If you do not reply or if your reply does not substantiate the legal basis of your actions I will commence legal action to enforce your compliance with the Data Protection Act without further notice. Any such legal action will incur fees and costs for payment of which you may become liable.

 

I look forward to receiving your confirmation by close of business on 6th September 2006

 

Yours, etc.

[Number6]

Don't have a fax number for Equifax do you?

 

Pete