Court Claim for O/draft from Nthmtn (CCBC)

[r&b]

Hi all. Small background to this. Ive had bk acc with lloyds for almost 23yrs vast portions of which have had an o/draft. fell into financial probs in 2008 with o/draft arnd £20k. changed to diff bk for income and bills etc. I had a cred card as well with them to the tune of abt £16k for which I have been pursuing the CCA (sent Dec08 no reply) and SAR (sent feb09 various statements-for cred card only- and a signed application form so far, anything else due by 17/04/09). should I not have had all details of the bank acc as well in the SAR? I have not formally started any claims for unfair charges as yet. I assumed that with the court cases going on with the banks that this would have been the last debt to get to court but what do I know eh! These are the POC. I know I have to do AOS but any ideas how I should handle this please? many thanks for any help.

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Edited April 2, 2009 by r&b

[palomino]

One small point : repost the image with the bar code blanked out as well.

[palomino]

Do you have proofs of delivery of the request for your credit agreement and the DSAR?

 

They have not complied with your request for a copy of your credit agreement and you can therefore assume that there isn't one. You should base your defence on this conclusion.

 

At this point you should acknowledge service and indicate you will be defending all the claim. You will have an extra two weeks to compose your defence and the case will also be transferred to you local court.

[r&b]

Hi palomino, thanks and bar code removed. I may not have been completely clear in my initial post. this is not for the credit card debt but for the overdraft on the bank acc. i dont believe that the CCA request has any bearing on that. I did assume that I would have had details of ANY transactions through my SAR request including those related to the bank acc but have only, so far, had details relating to the credit card debt. I am really wondering how I go about defending this (if I can) as I have not chased for the charges over the last 6 years etc? ...as I said I expected this to be last on the (long) list of debts to sort out....more CAG reading reqd methinks..

[palomino]

Apologies - jumped in too quickly.

 

What did you ask for in your DSAR?

Did you ask for the current account transactions as well as the credit card transactions?

When are/were the forty days up for your DSAR?

[r&b]

Palomino, I thought an SAR was a full data request for whatever the institution holds on you regardless of whether its credit card based or bank account based or anth else? CPR requests can be a bit more specific is my understanding or am I incorrect? I assume thats (CPR requests) the next point of call now proceedings have ensued anyway. My immediate worry is whether to defend the whole claim on the AOS and what Im going to defend with i.e. unclaimed charges etc? thanks

[palomino]

Most people use a DSAR to obtain statements so that is what banks customarily send if you ask in very general terms.

You must ask for specific items if you want them. I can post an example DSAR that I used if you like.

 

As to your response to the AoS, I would suggest that you indicate you are defending all of the claim. You need statements, application forms and agreements in order to determine whether they have a case. Now thata claim has been issued you can send a CPR request which doesn't cost anything.

[r&b]

I can post an example DSAR that I used if you like.

 

thanks palomino that wud be useful for future ref. I didnt realise there were diff criteria, thought it was a one-size-fits-all.

this was included in the SAR which i thought covered it:

"Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organization, INCLUDING Loansand or credit cards, payment protection insurance and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization."

ok so now i go the CPR route now. which one suits this type of claim?

i will submit defending all of the claim in the AOS as u suggest.

i thought i was just gettin to grips with the credit side (scratchin the surface obviously) and the overdraft problem rears it ugliness...lol

many thanks for your help

[questioning]

I have found this post in a thread that I think would be of interest to you,....here....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1560584.html

Post 43 & 44 in particular.

How ever the whole thread gives good info for you.

This is the thread.

Havinastella v Blackhorse

 

Heres another way to defend... Very good thread here.........

.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/128428-requesting-advice-mums-behalf.html

 

Kind regards Q.x.

Edited April 2, 2009 by questioning

[r&b]

thanks questioning very useful.

any clues as to which CPR to utilise for this pls bearing in mind its an overdraft on a bk acc? 31.16 seems to be the best fit i can see but more seasoned advice wud be welcome. also a few other threads (incl those above) seem to have complete coverage of the debt with charges an therefore admit the claim and counter for the charges. mine are unlikely to cover £20k, so am i trying to simply reduce the action here? this raises the question: does it mean i admit this amount and counterclaim for the unfair charges or do i dispute the amount because of the charges.if its a counterclaim do i need to put this on the AOS? i have done nth yet on the AOS. thanks

Edited April 3, 2009 by r&b
suggestion of CPR

[questioning]

Hi,

I think it is best to defend all of the claim.

How much of the claim amount to penalty charges?

Did you receive a notice served under sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974 to terminate the account and overdraft facility?

If you defend the whole claim on the basis it contains penalty charges, POC is vague, no account numbers (and perhaps no default or termination notice) they may not respond at all and case will be stayed.

If they do respond in the allowed 28 days then you can in your AQ bring to the courts attention that the claim contains penalty charges and that the balance needs to be reduced by £xx xx.penalty charges.

I would send CPR 18 as this is an overdraft and a claim for over £5000. so the CPR18 does apply. If they don't reply to it then add that to your defence.

Edited April 3, 2009 by questioning
added some text

[r&b]

1. ok will defend all

2. dont know how much is penalties til i get the statements for bank acc. i will include a reminder letter of the SAR in with the CPR disclosure rqst.

3. dont know about the docs.. when all this was going on it was head in the sand time.

4. again no idea about docs here another part of the requests.

5. ok wait n see on the AQ front.

6. CPR 18 it is then .do u have a template to hand? if not dont reply i ll look thru the threads.

really appreciate the help

[r&b]

did AOS online yest....CPR18 going gteed del today....

[palomino]

Here's a DSAR I used -

DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

Section 7, Data Protection Act 1998

 

This request for personal data is made under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject name :

Subject address :

 

 

 

 

Subject home telephone :

Subject mobile telephone :

 

 

 

Please supply the information specified below.

 

 

Part A - Data Not Specifically Relating to Any Account

 

1.Copies of requests for data or information made to any third party, together with the date the request was made. If you have not made any such requests then please state explicitly that you haven't.

2.Copies of any data or information received from any third party whether requested or not, together with the date the data or information was received. If you have not received any such data or information then please state explicitly that you haven't.

3.Copies of requests for data or information received from any third party, together with the date the request was received. If you have not received any such requests then please state explicitly that you haven't.

4.Copies of any data or information provided to any third party whether requested or not, and the reason for doing so, together with the date the data or information was provided. If you have not provided any such data or information then please state explicitly that you haven't.

5.Copies of any data, information and/or assessments you have recorded about my character, financial status, personal circumstances or other aspect of my relationship with you. If you have not recorded any such data or information then please state explicitly that you haven't.

6.Please explain whether you have a duty of care to me in administering my accounts, and if so the extent to which it applies and your view on whether you have carried this out. If you do not have a duty of care please explain why not.

7.Please advise whether you have a duty of care to anyone other than myself in administering my accounts. If you do please explain who, and the nature and extent of that duty. Please explain if such duty overrides the duty of care to myself.

8.You claim to conform to the Banking Code. While conformance with the code is entirely voluntary and non-compliance bears no sanction I would nevertheless like you to explain how your treatment of me conforms to the provisions of the Banking Code which, inter alia, specify that you will treat customers 'sympathetically and fairly' and deal ‘promptly’ with cases of financial difficulty.

9.Any other information relating to myself.

 

 

 

Part B - Data Relating to the Following Accounts

 

This section requests data or information specifically relating to each of these accounts -

 

Current Account :

Loan Account :

Credit Card Account :

 

1.A copy of all applications and/or agreements relating to the account. If you do not have these then please state explicitly that you haven't.

2.A complete list of all transactions for the account together with explanations of any internal codes used to identify the nature of the transactions.

3.A schedule showing all the interest rates applied to the account and the date they were effective from.

4.A copy of all notices issued by you together with proof of service. These should include notices of default, assignment, changes to the Terms and Conditions relating to account but this request is not limited to these. If you have not issued any notices then please state explicitly that you haven't. If you are unable to supply copies of any notices then, for each such notice, please explain why.

5.A log of all telephone calls between us. Such log should at the very least include the date, time and duration of the call and all notes made as a result of the call (if not included in 9. below), and any actions taken following the call. For those calls initiated by yourselves the number to which the call was made and the purpose of the call should also be included.

6.Transcripts of all telephone conversations between us. If you are unable to supply these then please explain why.

7.Copies of all correspondence between us.

8.Copies of all file notes, memos and/or annotations for the account, whatever the cause. If you are unable to supply these then please explain why. If any of these resulted in, or were made as a result of, manual intervention on the account please highlight accordingly.

9.A list of third parties to whom you have disclosed data relating to the account, details of the data you have disclosed and your reasons for doing so. If you have not disclosed any such data then please say so explicitly.

10.A copy of the notice of fair use of my data as required by the above-referenced Act.

11.The logic involved in automated decisions pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the above-referenced Act.

12.Any other information relating to the account.

 

 

 

Note : for the avoidance of doubt 'third parties' in both parts A. and B. above include (but is not limited to) credit reference agencies, regulatory authorities, banks and other financial institutions.

 

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. This request is being sent by recorded delivery and the Act specifies that you have 40 days from receipt in which to comply. Failure to comply fully within the required timescale will automatically result in a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner without further notice.

 

Royal Mail Recorded Delivery Reference : XXXXXXXXXXXXX

This contains contributions from several people on CAG to whom I have to confess to the sin of shameless plagiarism.

As Clive of India would have said : peccavi

[r&b]

lol...tx palomino.if it gets the job dun...and i dont think u have 'sind' at all.isnt google a wonderful thing...

[joneseyblod]

Would suggest you submit a holding defence while you wait on the documentation. It is called the embarassed defence and quite a few posts on this.

[r&b]

tks jonseyblod, wud u suggest i do this nearer the expiry time or put it in now?

[questioning]

I see you were asking another poster but I thought I'd add as you have only just sent CPR if you can hold off sending the def. if time allows then I would as you can then see what, if any response you get and include the result in your defence.

[joneseyblod]

I would certainly get it started and amended to suit your circumstances. Get it posted here for others to check. Then closer to the time you can get it sent in. Worse thing is feeling rushed as your nearly out of time and either getting things wrong, leaving things out or not giving people on here enough time to try and help you.

[questioning]

If you are just submitting an embarressed def. then no panick this is very easy and can be done online.

As you cannot add up all your penalty charges until you receive your statements then i presume you will file a holding def.

Edited April 6, 2009 by questioning
grammer

[r&b]

excellent advice and taken on board.. will get to it once ive got my 2 set asides out of the way on wednesday...many thanks and to u questioning for ur continued support

[questioning]

your welcome r&b

[r&b]

rite, time i got to work i think. as ive dun the AOS i have 28 days to put in a defence, from date of service (issue date was 31st March). the 31.18 rqst was sent gteed next day del on 6th April giving them 14 days in which to reply (damn, just noticed i didnt date the 31.18 rqst does this matter given that i can prove its gteed next day delivery?). anyhow, i ll rejig the holding defence i ve scrounged just in case i get nth thru.

[r&b]

ok, this is reply (i guess, doesnt say) to my 31.18 rqst. this letter plus statements back to sep06? the interesting thing on these is that from feb08 when i ceased using the acc., the additional £2k (almost) is made up of interest and charges (they told me on ph at the time they wud halt interest and acc chges). also bizaarly, 2 payments totalling nearly £600 to the credit card i had with them which was also in default, within 6 days of each other? there are no other paymts to the card previously or subsequent, within this period to closure of the acc? i received letters from them stating that they had increased my o/draft limit to accommodate these credit card payments. i phoned to complain but the call ctr in india was useless on several occasions so i gave up.

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any thoughts on how this helps/hinders my defence?

thanks r&b

[r&b]

i ve received nth else so far, think im gonna have to enter a holding def on the back of that reply. i take it i send a reminder to the 31.18 as per the other 31 rqsts, or can i state that i find it insufficient? or both? will state the insufficient reply in the defence as well. what about the semi-admission on the DN? do the same rules apply to bk accs as credit accs ie DN,Term Notice,proper service etc? thanks