Joint account, claim issued, Help.

[questioning]

Had a joint account with HSBC which was left with us oweing the £750 overdraft because we got into money probs.

Received a court claim today dated xx xx xx

Particulars of claim are very vague. says balance outstanding under a current account overdraft which we have failed to pay.

As this was a joint account I have received a court form and so has my husband.

 

Unfortunately I have not started a claim to get any penalty charges refunded,

Ive read alot of threads here but I need help as I don't what to do as this is a joint account and we have both received a claim form from Northampton. Not sure how to deal with this. This balance has come from charges and interest over a couple of years as we originally owed about £750. and now its three grand. (Since receiving a partial? reply to my CPR request I can see they have amalgamated debts in this claim!)

Claim forms have been sent from HSBC's solicitors DG.

Help and guidence will be much appreciated.

Edited August 20, 2008 by questioning

[JonCris]

1st have you acknowledged their claim if so you have a total of 28 days from the date of issue (what is it?) to present your case

 

When you do respond you should state

 

"as the banks claim primarily involves penalty charges which are presently the subject of proceedings in a higher court to determine their validity I am unable to plead and respectfully ask that in line will all such claims there be ordered by the court a stay on proceedings until the conclusion of that matter"

Edited June 19, 2008 by JonCris

[42man]

Also did they ever send a letter before action ?......If it was me I would send them this letter by RECORDED / GUARANTEED delivery....and do not hand sign it...

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[JonCris]

I would have though the best idea would have been to have the proceedings stayed BEFORE attempting to obtain the docs later via a solicitors SAR

 

Once after the stay is granted the solicitors realise they don't have the necessary docs they might then decide to withdraw their claim entirely

[questioning]

As usual great prompt replies thanks.

So that would be my best course of action then to get the proceedings stayed. Is this likely to work or is it like, they may do this?

 

 

*I have not acknowledged the claim yet, I only received the paper a couple of hours ago.

As stated in my OP. I have a claim form and so does my husband as this was a joint account, so we both have to proceed in the same way by acknowledging the claim then do we? sorry its a thick question, I just need to be sure, (some of you know a bit about me, I do lack confidence a bit, so I do often ask the obvious to make sure I've got things correct, Sorry)

 

I've been concentrating on other bits and pieces and so didn't get round to doing a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). to then go ahead and start to claim back these bank charges, because I hadn't heard from them for some time they were at the back of my mind. They have now just sneaked up on me. I did post a question about claiming bank charges but didn't go ahead there and then as believe it or not I didn't actually have the £10 fee to get the ball rolling.

 

*I'm not sure what action to take for the best as both replies are quite different, Thanks both of you for your replies!!

Joncris your advice seems to be the one I would go with, I'm just worried about the chances of getting the stay granted in this situation, I know you are very knowlegable so you think it would get the required out come, a stay granted?

Edited August 20, 2008 by questioning

[JonCris]

I see June 08 but no day. Whatever you decide to do you must acknowledge the claim within 14 days from issue otherwise they will be awarded a default Judgment.

 

When you acknowledge state you dispute the whole of the claim by ticking the appropriate box & where your asked why state because it includes bank penalty charges which are yet to proven lawful

 

In the meantime you could just write to the court today asking that the matter be stayed on the grounds already addressed earlier

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

If you could type the details of their P.O.C (particulars of claim) this will help in advising in your particular case (verbatum)

 

 

Regards

Andy:)

[questioning]

Ok thanks guys,

 

 

Edited August 20, 2008 by questioning
info removed

[AndyOrch]

Ok so now you needto get 42mans CPR 18 requst off send G/Delivery and retain proof of postage.You did state Defend all of it i hope?

 

Regards

Andy;)

[questioning]

Quote from Joncris, When you acknowledge state you dispute the whole of the claim by ticking the appropriate box & where your asked why state because it includes bank penalty charges which are yet to proven lawful

After I have done this I will have to enter a defence as well won't I with in the time limit?

[questioning]

Ok so now you needto get 42mans CPR 18 requst off send G/Delivery and retain proof of postage.You did state Defend all of it i hope?

 

Regards

Andy;)

 

Sorry I'm getting confused now as I haven't actually decided what the best action would be, Presently I would go along with Joncris as his advice seems to the point.

If I go with that advice would I not serve the CPR request as well and then use the reply to CPR and the bank penalty's as my defence and put my defence in just before the time limit is up.?

[AndyOrch]

Correct we will come to that bridge when we cross it, anything less than defend all of the claim will give rise to them attaining judgement by default so i always advise defend all of it.You have 33 days in total ie 5 days from service 14 to AOS and a further 14 to submit your defence Get your CPR 18 off for now and keep us updated.

 

Regards

Andy;)

Edited June 19, 2008 by Andyorch
typo

[questioning]

What does AOS mean?

 

Are you saying to do what both Joncris and 42man say to do,

Acknowledge in the way Joncris said to do so and send off the CPR as well as 42man says?

Thanks for all replies!

 

I've Just though AOS means acknowledgement of service doesn't it?

Edited June 19, 2008 by questioning
realised what AOS meant

[AndyOrch]

AOS acknowledgement of service

 

Defend all of the claim

 

Despatch CPR 18 request

 

 

Andy:)

[pt2537]

Or, an alternative,

 

make an application using a N244 to have the claim stayed until final determination of the OFT case as this case involves substantially the same issues being currently dealt with by the High Court before Justice Smith

 

either way, i dont think that there is any right or wrong answer here,

 

a request for information is IMHO ok as you are entitled to, and more importantly the other side are bound by the CPR to provide , a fully particualrised claim containing a concise statement of fact so that you can investigate the claim and reply

 

 

what JC is saying, i agree with also, but i think you need to ask for information regarding their claim and if they dont reply it will just look worst on them

 

at the end of the day, its up to you what you chose to do, we can only offer you advice based on our experiences

[JonCris]

Advice on making a part 18 application

 

During the pre-trial stage of litigation proceedings, a party may sometimes take the view that the statement of case provided by the other party provides insufficient information about the nature of the claim or the defence. In such circumstances a formal request may be made to the other party to either clarify which is in dispute in the proceedings or give additional information in relation to any such matter. Such a request can be made pursuant to a court order.

Generally a Part 18 Request (so called because of the Civil Procedure Rule governing its use) will be made shortly after the relevant statement of case is served.

Part 18 Requests are commonly used to obtain admissions; to reveal weaknesses in the other party's case; to obtain information as to material facts which the applicant needs to prove in support of his case; to ascertain details of aspects of the other party's case to reduce the element of surprise when witness statements are exchanged or at trial; to obtain clarification of the other party's case and to limit the other party's ability to depart from the clarified case; or to narrow the issues between the parties and reduce the expense and length of trial. However the key issue that must be taken into consideration when contemplating making a Part 18 Request, is whether all it may achieve is to highlight to the other party the weaknesses in its case.

Procedure for Part 18 Requests for Further Information

The procedure for making a Part 18 Requests involves (a) the preliminary request; (b) the response to the preliminary request; and © an application for an order under Part 18 for further information.

The preliminary request

The party making a Part 18 Request (the first party) must first serve it on the other party (the second party) stating a reasonable date by which the response to the Part 18 Request should be served The Part 18 Request should be confined to only those matters which are reasonably necessary and proportionate to enable the first party to prepare its own case or to understand the case it has to meet.

Usually a Part 18 Request will take the form of a letter which should state that it is written pursuant to Part 18 and must not deal any matters other than the

Part 18 Request.

The response to the preliminary request:- A Part 18 Request made by letter will usually be responded to by way of a letter and it, too, should also identify itself as a response to the Part 18 Request and deal with no other matters than the response. The response may take the form of an answer or an objection.

A Part 18 order

- An application can be made for an order under Part 18. if the response does not satisfy the first party or if the second party fails to respond to the Part Request. The application can be dealt with by the court without a hearing.

In what situations will a Part 18 Request be objectionable?

If the second party objects to answering a Part 18 Request, or it considers that the time given to respond was too short, the second party should inform the first party of its objection promptly and in any event within the stipulated time limit. Aside from the issue of time, the Part 18 Request may also be objectionable on the grounds that it is:-

not relevant to the issues in dispute;

a ‘fishing’ request where the first party does not have

evidence supporting its statements of case;

a request going purely to the credibility of a witness; or

oppressive and disproportionate requests in terms of scope and costs.

Strategy

A Part 18 Request can be a powerful tool to be used in extracting information from the other party. It may provide a more informed insight into the other party's case, to exert pressure on the other party to provide a complete picture of its statement of case, and to assist the just disposal of the case.

[questioning]

OK thanks for all replies, I hope everyone understands my hesitation due to the fact that all replies were excellent so I became hesitent as to what action to take.

I just need to work out how to go about all this now.

ONE more question, As my husband has also received the same claim form as this was a joint account overdraft I do exactly the same for my husband as I do for myself, Is this correct?

Thanks for posts received today, again extremely helpful.

If you find the time will you please keep an eye on this thread as I only have you lot to talk to. My husband is not able to help much as he is at work and its me who has been sitting and reading the forum & passing on the info I've learnt to him, therefor he won't have any answers for me.

I'll get on with it now and see if i can work out what to do.

Many thanks again. Q

[AndyOrch]

ONE more question, As my husband has also received the same claim form as this was a joint account overdraft I do exactly the same for my husband as I do for myself, Is this correct?

 

 

 

Yes you are correct treat them as one claim but seperatly.

 

Regards

Andy:cool:

[JonCris]

Do the claim forms have separate claim No's & have they been issued on the same day?

[questioning]

Both claims have the SAME CLAIM NO. and the same date. Just my name on one and hubbies on the other, every thing else the same.

thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Is the password the same for both claims MCOL? If so check on screen to make sure you only have to AoS once and submit once.If in doubt a quick call to the bullk centre to confirm, telephone number top right tiny print, just to clarify and put your mind at ease.The staff are quite helpfull.

 

Regards

Andy:)

[questioning]

Many thanks,

Edited July 10, 2008 by questioning

[AndyOrch]

I would go into the screen using both passwords and see i it takes you to one claim if not then you must AoS twice.Check with Northampton if in doubt.

 

Regards

Andy

[questioning]

Off topic removed

Edited July 10, 2008 by questioning

[AndyOrch]

Hi Questioning

 

You must AOS be it one or both claims

You must make your plea

You must send CPR 18

 

With regards to the N244 (AN) that is your option at a price mind you.(Fee)

As JC and Pt have implied there is no right or wrong way to proceed in this matter I just like to keep it simple as you are finding out and learning alot at great speed ,do you really need another form at this moment.

IMHO i would keep things simple and go the traditional route ie submit your defence and wait for noncomplience from the claiments.Your case will then be stayed anyway.Choice is yours.

 

Regards

Andy