Ryanair Compensation Claim - Volcano Problem.

[edno99]

I've just returned from my holiday to Spain and am now questioning the compensation offered by Ryanair.

 

On arriving at Girona airport on Saturday 17th, I was offered either a refund of £99 or an alternative booking for a flight on the 24th April. I accepted the refund, being unable to remain in Spain for a further week. There was no offer of anything more in the way of service - a phone call, hotel, alternative transport, drink, meal. They offered no advice whatsoever, not even some basic local info.

 

Leaving the airport, we paid (me and my girlfriend) 40euro to get to Perpignan, hotel there (48euro), train to Paris the next day (308euro), train to Caen (65euro), ferry back to Portsmouth (£90) and then home. Not including any food, drinks travel between stations and cabs etc.

 

I'm sure my journey has been one of the more fortunate, by comparison to many of the people that we met making this journey, but I'm thinking that the £600+ we've spent getting home is hardly negated by Ryanairs offer of £99 (credited back to me in 2 weeks)!!!!

 

Am I, and I'm sure the many many others affected by this entitled to further return from the airline?

 

Having read some of the articles on this site, it appears we may be entitled to more, but can I claim for this having already accepted the refund?

[Cityboy62]

I've just returned from my holiday to Spain and am now questioning the compensation offered by Ryanair.

 

On arriving at Girona airport on Saturday 17th, I was offered either a refund of £99 or an alternative booking for a flight on the 24th April. I accepted the refund, being unable to remain in Spain for a further week. There was no offer of anything more in the way of service - a phone call, hotel, alternative transport, drink, meal. They offered no advice whatsoever, not even some basic local info.

 

Leaving the airport, we paid (me and my girlfriend) 40euro to get to Perpignan, hotel there (48euro), train to Paris the next day (308euro), train to Caen (65euro), ferry back to Portsmouth (£90) and then home. Not including any food, drinks travel between stations and cabs etc.

 

I'm sure my journey has been one of the more fortunate, by comparison to many of the people that we met making this journey, but I'm thinking that the £600+ we've spent getting home is hardly negated by Ryanairs offer of £99 (credited back to me in 2 weeks)!!!!

 

Am I, and I'm sure the many many others affected by this entitled to further return from the airline?

 

Having read some of the articles on this site, it appears we may be entitled to more, but can I claim for this having already accepted the refund?

 

Since you accepted the refund, that was the limit of the airline's obligations to you and you are not entitled to further care once you accepted the refund. Only if you accept the re-route option will the airline's obligation to provide 'care' or kick in.

[edno99]

Oh well... I did find this article that suggests they've given me the right amount, but this article that suggests there maybe an additional entitlement, specifically article seven, which states:

 

Article 7

Right to compensation

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:

(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;

(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;

© EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).

In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.

2. When passengers are offered re-routing to their final destination on an alternative flight pursuant to Article 8, the arrival time of which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally booked

(a) by two hours, in respect of all flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or

(b) by three hours, in respect of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or

© by four hours, in respect of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),

the operating air carrier may reduce the compensation provided for in paragraph 1 by 50 %.

3. The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.

4. The distances given in paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be measured by the great circle route method.

 

If I've accepted the £99 refund and this article says I can get 250euro, do I have a way of getting the remainder?

 

Also, can I claim the tax back on the flight, or would this have been included in their initial refund?

[Cityboy62]

Oh well... I did find this article that suggests they've given me the right amount, but this article that suggests there maybe an additional entitlement, specifically article seven, which states:

 

Article 7

Right to compensation

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:

(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;

(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;

© EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).

In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.

2. When passengers are offered re-routing to their final destination on an alternative flight pursuant to Article 8, the arrival time of which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally booked

(a) by two hours, in respect of all flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or

(b) by three hours, in respect of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or

© by four hours, in respect of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),

the operating air carrier may reduce the compensation provided for in paragraph 1 by 50 %.

3. The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.

4. The distances given in paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be measured by the great circle route method.

 

If I've accepted the £99 refund and this article says I can get 250euro, do I have a way of getting the remainder?

 

Also, can I claim the tax back on the flight, or would this have been included in their initial refund?

 

You will not be able to claim the compensation element under Arts 5 & 7 as airlines (together with just about everone else on the planet) will legitimately claim that these are extraordinary circumstances.

 

You refund should have included the taxes.

[edno99]

oh well.... loved the train ride across france, if unexpected! Thanks for your help and my regards to everyone thats been through what we've done in the last 48hrs. Good luck to you all

[miaviv]

We are currently stuck in Spain after flying from Frankfurt Hahn to Alicante with Ryanair. We found it impossible to get back to France (where we live near the German border) via train or coach so have rebooked for a return flight scheduled for Monday 26th and are crossing our fingers that we will be ok. We are fortunate in that one extra week off work is not a big deal and it is still school holidays for us but we are worried what will happen to us if we can't get home on Monday.

 

We are staying with a friend but are we entitled to some form of compensation from Ryanair for food at least ? I know that they have clauses in their contract to say that they are not liable for anything but I thought they were not allowed to do this. Can anyone shed any light on this ? Thanks

[Cityboy62]

We are currently stuck in Spain after flying from Frankfurt Hahn to Alicante with Ryanair. We found it impossible to get back to France (where we live near the German border) via train or coach so have rebooked for a return flight scheduled for Monday 26th and are crossing our fingers that we will be ok. We are fortunate in that one extra week off work is not a big deal and it is still school holidays for us but we are worried what will happen to us if we can't get home on Monday.

 

We are staying with a friend but are we entitled to some form of compensation from Ryanair for food at least ? I know that they have clauses in their contract to say that they are not liable for anything but I thought they were not allowed to do this. Can anyone shed any light on this ? Thanks

 

You would be entitled to the 'Right to Care' under Art 9 of EC 261/2004 but you would need receipts for hotel and meals and submit copies of these to the airline on your return. Since you are staying with friends, and presumably are mitigating your losses (and the airline's) by so doing you might find it difficult to claim this. If you stayed in a hotel then you could claim. The watchword in all these things is reasonable.

 

Altho the Ryanair boss is quoted as saying that he would limit passengers' entitlement unde rthe regs to whatever they paid for their fare or something similar, the following is linked directly from Ryanair's homepage which is accurate insofar as their obligations to 'care' and refund/rebook are concerned: http://www.ryanair.com/doc/faqs/EU261_EN.pdf.

[carlosbambino]

We were due to fly Wednesday 21st to Murcia and come back from Valencia.

Obviously we have been cancelled going out and can claim a refund.

As we wont make it now to Spain, are we entitled to a refund on the return leg (25th April) even if it flys ?

[Cityboy62]

We were due to fly Wednesday 21st to Murcia and come back from Valencia.

Obviously we have been cancelled going out and can claim a refund.

As we wont make it now to Spain, are we entitled to a refund on the return leg (25th April) even if it flys ?

 

I would check Ryanair's website as it seems to be suggesting that if you are unable to travel on your outbound flight then you may be able to obtain a refund for your return flight even if that was not cancelled:

 

"Customers who are booked on any of the below flights, who wish to cancel and claim a full refund on the unused flight(s) can do so directly by clicking on the link below and entering the required details. Refunds will be processed in 20 working days back to the form of payment used to pay for the booking".

 

You need to check the list of cancelled outbound flights listed each day to see whether yours is listed and I assume it will be.

[kubalikus]

Hi,

 

We were supposed to fly back from Rome to Wroclaw (Poland) on Saturday, but our flight has been cancelled and we rescheduled for a flight on Monday (Ryanair has no ground staff in Rome Ciampino, so all information were passed through airport staff).

 

Anyway, knowing our rights we stayed at the hotel and collected all our food and airport-hotel travell bills.

 

Unfortunately our Monday flight has also been cancelled. Since we were unable to wait for the next possible flight (due on Thursday and our three little kids stayed at home with my parents) we decided to find an alternative way of getting back home... We have booked first available coach for Tuesday, stayed one more night at the hotel and after a 24h long journey arrived backed home today (Wednesday).

 

We have sent an email to Ryainair about this (we were unable to call them as all lines were busy), to approve this re-routing, but noone has answered.

 

We have never cancelled or rescheduled this Monday flight to Thursday.

 

My Q is: are we entitled to cost reimbursement of all our hotel expenses, meals and our travel back home?

 

Regards,

 

JL

[carlosbambino]

I was watching the news earlier and it seems you are entitled, however Ryanair are to defy the rules and only compensate up to the value of the flight

[honeybee13]

Hi everyone. On the lunchtime news today, the BBC said that Ryanair have said they will abide by the rules now. I wonder what caused the change of heart and if they will follow the spirit of the legislation.

 

HB

[Conniff]

I would suggest that the bad press on all the news channel and the threat of court action helped change his mind.

 

They have said that they will now pay all 'reasonable' costs which seems fair. You can't expect them to pay €3,000 for a taxi ride like someone is trying to claim.

[perplexity]

Did anybody actually bother to read EC 261/2004?

 

This

 

Since you accepted the refund, that was the limit of the airline's obligations to you and you are not entitled to further care once you accepted the refund. Only if you accept the re-route option will the airline's obligation to provide 'care' or kick in.

 

hardly concurs with Article 12 of the Regulation which is perfectly clear about it:

 

Further compensation

1. This Regulation shall apply without prejudice to a passenger's rights to further compensation. The compensation granted under this Regulation may be deducted from such compensation.

Nor does it concur with (b) of Article 5 which insists that the passengers concerned shall

"be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2)"

which provides for meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time plus two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails offered free of charge, at least.

 

Given then that the effect of Ryanair's failure to fully inform about these rights is to deliberately deprive passengers of the better opportunity, to have their hotel bills paid while they wait for another flight, the firm's neglect is not only actionable as a breach of duty, it is tantamount to fraud and could be prosecuted as a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

If anybody here is then so inclined to take it as seriously as that I shall be more than glad to give evidence because the same happened to us last January. On the way back from Venice we were lucky enough to find out for ourselves that it was possible to claim the Hotel bill and extra travel when Ryanair re-routed the flight. Otherwise, all sorts of advice and assistance that should have been offered failed to happen, notwithstanding the legal entitlement, and we know for a fact that some of the passengers ended up roughing it for the night in the Airport which they should not have had to do.

 

[carlosbambino]

I suspect they will pay very little. have anyone ever tried to get through to them on the phone. I still have an outstanding flight this weekend that I cannot take form Valencia to East mids, I even tried to alter the date. Cant do it online as Ive checked in, so they say call the reservations desk. I'm beginning to think its a little cottage in Ireland with one person there when they arent shopping. So what chance getting a compensation claim answered

[perplexity]

We sent a claim to Ryanair and they eventually paid up, in full, but way beyond when they should have done.

 

Otherwise, I gather that it is possible to sue online by way of a service provided from Ireland. In any case, these are European Regulations so you could could just as well sue them in your local County Court if it came to that.

 

There is also "The Air Transport Users Council (AUC)" and the CAA but I doubt that they're worth the time you would spend, in terms of getting Ryanair to jump. If that were so this would not be happening to start with.

 

[weary berkshire traveller]

Have been following this thread intently. We were due to fly back from Italy with Ryanair last Friday. Flight was cancelled, as was our rebooked flight on Tuesday. As it looked like the earliest date we might be able to get back would be some time next week (not guaranteed), we decided to make alternative travel arrangements.

 

As all coaches, buses and trains were completely full, our only option was to travel by hire car to calais and get a ferry home - a costly option but there were four of us travelling.

 

So having read all the news reports, I'm still unclear what our rights are with regard to claiming back the costs of us making our own way home. Our travel insurance company are not paying up. Does anyone know?

 

I have today applied for a refund of the flight tickets we haven't used. Does this compromise our situation at all?

[perplexity]

The essentials are spelled out clearly enough if you take the time to read the Regulation, carefully.

 

The Regulation is there to establish the duty of an airline, which means that in so far as the duty is then neglected they are liable for whatever damage caused by that.

 

Please tell. How much of what they were specifically supposed to do was done, and what was not?

 

Did you notice this, for instance?

 

1. The operating air carrier shall ensure that at check-in a clearly legible notice containing the following text is displayed in a manner clearly visible to passengers: "If you are denied boarding or if your flight is cancelled or delayed for at least two hours, ask at the check-in counter or boarding gate for the text stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensation and assistance".

 

[Cityboy62]

Did anybody actually bother to read EC 261/2004?

 

This

 

 

 

hardly concurs with Article 12 of the Regulation which is perfectly clear about it:

 

Nor does it concur with (b) of Article 5 which insists that the passengers concerned shall which provides for meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time plus two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails offered free of charge, at least.

 

Given then that the effect of Ryanair's failure to fully inform about these rights is to deliberately deprive passengers of the better opportunity, to have their hotel bills paid while they wait for another flight, the firm's neglect is not only actionable as a breach of duty, it is tantamount to fraud and could be prosecuted as a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

If anybody here is then so inclined to take it as seriously as that I shall be more than glad to give evidence because the same happened to us last January. On the way back from Venice we were lucky enough to find out for ourselves that it was possible to claim the Hotel bill and extra travel when Ryanair re-routed the flight. Otherwise, all sorts of advice and assistance that should have been offered failed to happen, notwithstanding the legal entitlement, and we know for a fact that some of the passengers ended up roughing it for the night in the Airport which they should not have had to do.

 

 

I am intimately acquainted with EC261/2004, having successfully taken an airline to court and won the compensation laid out in Art 7. I also spend considerable time giving assistance and advice to others on this on www.flightmole.com.

 

Art 12 refers to the possibility of claiming further compensation as laid down in the Montreal Convention. What we are talking about in this thread is the Right to Care expenses and the distinction is well madeas compensation is referred to in EC 261/2004 Arts 5 & 7.

 

The regs envisage a situation whereby the passenger is offered the choice of a refund or a re-route. Art 5.1(b) is specific in stating:

 

(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)©;

 

Where the passenger has accepted a refund, IMO they will find it difficult or impossible to force the airline to pay expenses for accommodation/transfers under Art 9 since the regulation implies this is only available in the event of re-routing.

 

Cityboy62

[perplexity]

The Regulations envisage the situation whereby the airline complies willingly.

 

The subject described here is a strict liability criminal offence, a misleading omission under section 6 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 came about to prevent the event of passengers spending a night or more in an airport lobby when a flight is cancelled, which is exactly what has been happening because Ryanair fails to tell them that the alternative exists, never mind that this is exactly what the law requires them to do.

 

We ended up in a Hotel because we'd noticed the proprietor, handing out his business cards to stranded passengers, on his own initiative, while we watched them refuse the opportunity, apparently unaware that the cost could be covered for them.

 

It is absurd to pretend that there is no liability for that, insane.

 

Edited April 22, 2010 by perplexity
spelling + doubled words

[Cityboy62]

Have been following this thread intently. We were due to fly back from Italy with Ryanair last Friday. Flight was cancelled, as was our rebooked flight on Tuesday. As it looked like the earliest date we might be able to get back would be some time next week (not guaranteed), we decided to make alternative travel arrangements.

 

As all coaches, buses and trains were completely full, our only option was to travel by hire car to calais and get a ferry home - a costly option but there were four of us travelling.

 

So having read all the news reports, I'm still unclear what our rights are with regard to claiming back the costs of us making our own way home. Our travel insurance company are not paying up. Does anyone know?

 

I have today applied for a refund of the flight tickets we haven't used. Does this compromise our situation at all?

 

I don't believe Ryanair would pay out for your alternative travel. It is worthwhile submitting your claims for meals/accommodation to them (copies of receipts sent recorded/signed for delivery) but the airline will probably restrict your claim to your meals up to the point you made your own arrangements as you didn't take any re-route offered by the airline.

[Cityboy62]

The Regulations envisage the situation whereby the airline complies willingly.

 

The subject described here is a strict liability criminal offence, a misleading omission under section 6 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 came about to prevent the event of passengers spending a night or more in an airport lobby when a flight is cancelled, which is exactly what has been happening because Ryanair fails to tell them that the alternative exists, never mind that this is exactly what the law requires them to do.

 

We ended up in a Hotel because we'd noticed the proprietor, handing out his business cards to stranded passengers, on his own initiative, while we watched them refuse the opportunity, apparently unaware that the cost could be covered for them.

 

It is absurd to pretend that there is no liability for that, insane.

 

 

Ryanair are an Irish-based company with no UK trading address and therefore action under CPUTR would be futile as neither Trading Standards nor the DTI has any powers of sanction under this law to enforce any judgement upon the airline.

 

Moreover, IMO Ryanair have neither omitted nor hidden material information relevant to the passengers' choice to buy an airline ticket (the section 6 you quote) since Ryanair publish a version of the regulation on their website: http://www.ryanair.com/doc/faqs/EU261_EN.pdf.

 

Any remedy for not displaying the notice regarding your rights would have to be taken under the regulation but no remedy is stated in the regulation. The passenger thus inconvenienced could use the lack of notice display as corroborative evidence of the airline's lack of care when taken in collaboration with a further claim under the regulations (typically under Art 7 which does afford the passenger a remedy in certain situations) but not on its own.

 

CPUTR cannot be used in this situation against Ryanair, any remedy should be pursued under EC 261/2004 which limits expenses to those I have already outlined above.

[perplexity]

Where on Earth did this idea come from?

 

Ryanair are an Irish-based company with no UK trading address and therefore action under CPUTR would be futile as neither Trading Standards nor the DTI has any powers of sanction under this law to enforce any judgement upon the airline.

 

Do you work for Ryanair?

 

"It shall be the duty of every enforcement authority to enforce these Regulations", N.B. every authority.

 

Article 16 of Council Regulation (EC) No 44/2001 is perfectly clear about this

 

1. A consumer may bring proceedings against the other party to a contract either in the courts of the Member State in which that party is domiciled or in the courts for the place where the consumer is domiciled.

and Part 8 of the Enterprise Act binds the Crown to the European Regulations, let alone Trading Standards.

 

N.B. also, for instance:

 

(5) For the purposes of a domestic infringement it is immaterial whether a person supplying goods or services has a place of business in the United Kingdom.

re.

 

Moreover, IMO Ryanair have neither omitted nor hidden material information relevant to the passengers' choice to buy an airline ticket (the section 6 you quote) since Ryanair publish a version of the regulation on their website: http://www.ryanair.com/doc/faqs/EU261_EN.pdf.

 

I had already pointed out that the Regulations specifically require "a clearly legible notice containing the following text is displayed in a manner clearly visible to passengers". Did you ever happen to see such a notice, at an airport, displayed as it should be?

 

(Edit). I was there. I saw the passengers wandering about, bewildered when the Ryanair crew vanished instead of telling them what to expect. I spoke to some while they stood in the queue to be re-routed and I overheard what they were told by the booking clerk who was left to manage that, if they happened to ask for want of the written advice that they were supposed to have been made aware of.

 

Where and how was the "free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails" supposed to happen? The Regulation specifies that the "passengers shall be offered", not that this may be available on demand should a fortunate passenger be aware of the right, but I noticed nothing to enable that a practical possibility, let alone the offer to use it.

 

Would you care to lay a bet on how many of the passengers actually got to use such a facility? I would take a bit of that.

 

This is also a criminal deception, or idiotically ignorant:

 

Any remedy for not displaying the notice regarding your rights would have to be taken under the regulation but no remedy is stated in the regulation.

 

 

Which part of this is so hard to get?

 

Article 16

Infringements

1. Each Member State shall designate a body responsible for the enforcement of this Regulation as regards flights from airports situated on its territory and flights from a third country to such airports. Where appropriate, this body shall take the measures necessary to ensure that the rights of passengers are respected. The Member States shall inform the Commission of the body that has been designated in accordance with this paragraph.

2. Without prejudice to Article 12, each passenger may complain to any body designated under paragraph 1, or to any other competent body designated by a Member State, about an alleged infringement of this Regulation at any airport situated on the territory of a Member State or concerning any flight from a third country to an airport situated on that territory.

3. The sanctions laid down by Member States for infringements of this Regulation shall be effective, proportionate and dissuasive.

 

Edited April 23, 2010 by maroondevo52
Removed unsuitable remark

[vauxracer]

hi, can anyone tell me how i can claim from ryanair, i tried phoning them this morning when i got through i was informed there was a 7 minute wait but after holding for 35 mins i had to give up. do i need an actual form from them or would a letter with my receipts attached suffice.

 

as with many others i was caught up in the disruption of the volcano situation, i was due to fly back from majorca to prestwick on friday (16th) changed to liverpool on tues (20th) cancelled again so changed to to barcelona on weds, (21st) decides like many others to get to mainland spain n make our own way home, got to airport early whilst waiting for the check in to open jet2 opened a flight to manchester leaving within the hour so bought 2 tickets for that flight 200 euro each, anyway because whilst i was then on my way home with no internet access i could not cancel my flight to barcelona with ryanair. i want to claim for my 5 extra nights accommodation, and meals as i understand it i think i would still be entitled to the cost of them.

Edited April 23, 2010 by vauxracer

[perplexity]

We simply sent a letter to Dublin (not even a recorded delivery) to identify the cancelled flight, along with a mention of the EU Regulation, plus copies of receipts for monies paid (extra travel and Hotel).

 

There was then a considerable wait before an acknowledgement of that came back, and then eventually the money, with no argument about the issue from Ryanair.

 

The mess they make is largely the result of sheer ineptitude, perhaps; it is often a mistake to look for an intelligent person to talk to but the law is absolute. The criminal offence of misleading consumers would be proved by the fact that the consumers were mislead.