Mrs P v Halifax visa

[MRS_P]

Just starting a thread, hopefully this will help others.

 

I sent a SAR request and contained within was the following agreement for my visa card.

 

 

PPI auto ticked and benefits not expalined etc so will be writing under seperate cover for a refund.

 

Will be posting a CCA request off today for the agreement itself.

 

Will keep you all posted.

 

Mrs_P

[MRS_P]

The same agreement was sent as per my CCA request.

 

I sent in a request for unlawfull charges and for ppi premiums to be refunded, to date I have not had a response.

 

Should I send in a LBA with a schedule of charges? What if the amounts claimed are inaccurate?

 

Do Halifax entertain refunds with interest compounded at their contractual rate?

 

Thanks

[s4ddys]

I too have received the above but am unsure what to do next. Can anyone guide me in the right direction please? Have previously sent SAR and follow up letter and just got the above this morning.

 

Cheers

[s4ddys]

I have been defaulted on the above and am looking at what to do next, can anyone help???

 

Thanks in advance

 

s4ddy

[s4ddys]

Can anyone help?

[MRS_P]

Hi s4ddys, I have no problem with you posting questions on my thread but I think it would be best if you start your own thread.

 

When you start your thread detail everything that has happened to date and post up documents (minus personal details) such as agreement, default notices and termination letters. You will get more of a response that way.

 

Regards

Mrs P

[MRS_P]

Just checked my account online today and 3 refunds totalling £8xx has gone into my account, strange as I did not get an acknowledgment/offer letter. This was broken down as premium refund and 2 lots of interest which I assume is contractual and statutory. This refunded amount is significantly lower as I had requested compounded interest.

Are there any letters I could send requesting compounded interest to be paid as this is only fair on the grounds that Halifax charged me compounded interest

 

Regards

Mrs_P

Edited October 15, 2009 by MRS_P
typo...

[s4ddys]

Apologies, have started my own thread

[vint1954]

These applications have no prescribed terms, so unenforcable. ( cannot take you to court with it. )

 

Thry this.

 

xxxxxx 2009.

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I write regarding recent and continuing communication regarding the above account. I acknowledge no dept to your organisation.

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account remains subject to a lawful serious dispute. On xxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request, supplying only an application form devoid of all prescribed terms and generic terms & conditions, which cannot be linked to any agreement which you claim that I have signed. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Contrary to your assertion, xxxxxxxx have not complied with the terms of CCA 1974 s78. The documents that you have supplied, do not comply with your duties to supply a “True Copy” of any agreement you claim to have been signed by me, for pre 2007 agreements. As you will be further aware, an agreement is not executed, until signed by both parties, so the document that you have supplied, cannot be a True Copy of an Executed Agreement.

While this account remains in serious dispute, the relevant main points of the Law and OFT regulations while the account is in this state and xxxxxx remain in default are:

• You may not ask for payment against this account.
  
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  
• You cannot register any data with a third party.
  
• You cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  
• You cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  
• You cannot sell the account.
  

Let me explain here, what a true copy is:

In a recent letter from the enforcement department of the OFT, the text below was quoted, explaining what is required.

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

I also refer you to the information below.

1. A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

 

2. Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

2. The need for prescribed terms to be contained in the credit agreement is confirmed by the Author of the CCA1974 act, I quote ““As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

 

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.” - 167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.”

I am now granting to you a further 7 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If you are insisting that the non enforceable document, that you have supplied, is the only alleged agreement in your possession, then I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero.

I look forward to your response.

[MRS_P]

Are there any letters I could send requesting compounded interest to be paid as this is only fair on the grounds that Halifax charged me compounded interest

 

Regards

Mrs_P

 

 

Could really do with some help on this, halifax have refunded premiums also repaid contractual interest (not compounded) and 8% interest.

 

Has any ever claimed back compounded interest and what arguments were used for this?

 

Thanks

[middenmess]

Hi Mrs.P,

 

 

You might like to read these--parts of which reflect your position.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/217048-how-much-youre-aving.html

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/224540-advice-regarding-default-notice.html

[middenmess]

''Hi middenmess, are you going to pursue Halifax for compounded interest, having read your thread it does not seem like they paid this.''

 

As you will have read on the second thread [http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/224540-advice-regarding-default-notice.html]

they have now [unlawfully] terminated my account.

 

I said to them that the missed payments were based on the set percentage minimum payment required on the total that included the unlawful charges but should have been adjusted to take into account the refund/payment of £1k into the account.

 

This would have meant a much smaller sum was due per month.

 

I will await their next missive before deciding on my next move--- I haven't yet made a PPI claim with them or pursued the compound interest shortfall as I am doing a dozen other things at the same time.

 

As far as I am concerned,the more errors they make and put in writing,will make any future claim easier to make.