Clarification: Why Are unsigned Credit Card Agreements enforceable (even if you have used the card)?

[mikek]

I did some digging up and this what I discovered from the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with regards to unsigned agreements for credit cards:

 

66 Acceptance of credit-tokens

(1) The debtor shall not be liable under a credit-token agreement for use made of the credit-token by any person unless the debtor had previously accepted the credit-token, or the use constituted an acceptance of it by him.

 

(2) The debtor accepts a credit-token when—

 

(a) it is signed, or

 

(b) a receipt for it is signed, or

 

© it is first used,

 

 

either by the debtor himself or by a person who, pursuant to the agreement, is authorised by him to use it.

 

So yes you are liable for the credit card debt if you used it at least once. But the agreement is unenforceable if it does not have any signature:

 

61 Signing of agreement

 

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

AND only the court can enforce an improperly executed agreement:

 

65 Consequences of improper execution

 

(1) An improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer on an order of the court only.

 

And the court will not enforce an agreement that is not signed IN ANY WAY:

 

127 Enforcement orders in cases of infringement

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

THEREFORE, NO SIGNATURE OF ANY KIND ON A CREDIT CARD DOCUMENT= NOT POSSIBLE TO ENFORCE

 

IF YOUR BANK CANNOT PRESENT A DOCUMENT WITH YOUR SIGNATURE ON IT, THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO RECOVER THE BALANCE. OTHER MISSING PRESCRIBED TERMS HAVE THE SAME EFFECT.

 

I think it is clear cut now

 

Edited July 30, 2008 by mikek

[alfwithhair]

Maybe so, but it doesn't stop them trying.

[1littleduck]

Most of the credit card agreements are pre-signed pieces of paper, the only real signature on them is usually the customers. A digitially signed loan agreement, such as one you take out over the internet with your bank will not have an ink signature on it, is this a legal document?

I took a loan out with the tsb on the internet, and they signed it using my internet password!

[theladyknows]

As anyone actually succeeded in doing this?

What would be the steps to take?

Does been on a debt management plan alter this?

 

Have about 6 cards and can only remember signing for one of them so would be intrested to pursue this without paying the solicitor sharks that have shot up to process claims.

[dpick]

Hi some of us on CAG have taken creditors to court to have agreements declared improperly executed and so irredeemably unenforceable.

 

In my own case I have taken action against MBNA and J.D. Williams both settled out of court when a Judge ordered disclosure of the original signed credit agreements etc.

 

 

Littlewoods settled before court with same no agreement.

 

dpick

[mikek]

Any chance of having a copy of your POC please?

 

thanks

[alfwithhair]

Hi some of us on CAG have taken creditors to court to have agreements declared improperly executed and so irredeemably unenforceable.

 

In my own case I have taken action against MBNA and J.D. Williams both settled out of court when a Judge ordered disclosure of the original signed credit agreements etc.

 

 

Littlewoods settled before court with same no agreement.

 

dpick

 

Hi dpick,

Could you give anymore details/links on how to go about this,

[tiglet]

Hmm - is a judge likely to enforce if the creditor has not signed?

[tinkerbell20]

Hmm - is a judge likely to enforce if the creditor has not signed?

 

 

Yes

[tiglet]

Why?

[MCGR4TH]

I have it in writting from nationwide credit card that they do not have a signed copy of my agreement but when i fell behind on payment they froze my current account and took the £560 out of my account without my permission. I am now taking them to the small claims court to claim for that money back what are my chances of sucseeding?

[74656]

Sometimes, if you have applied online for an account and accepted the Ts and Cs i think this makes it valid. Wasnt this change brought in for agreements AFTER feb 07.

[tifo]

Yes

 

Maybe not always Yes.

 

I used the points below (among others) to get 3 accounts written off by a DCA who sent an application form, unsigned by the bank, as compliance with a s.78 request. The total amount was quiet a bit. On top of that, their 'agent' paid me compensation for chasing the accounts.

 

For your information and without going into too much detail here, as you will be aware of your legal obligations, a valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

As you will know section 180(1)(b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form”. This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

[mallyonline]

As anyone actually succeeded in doing this?

 

Yes

 

I took out motorcycle insurance on a pay monthly basis and ended this after 2 months.

 

On being chased unfairly in my opinion for an amount that they said was due to early cancelation the company chased me for 70+ pounds! I told them that the debt would not be paid unless a court order had been obtained first and for the last 2 months have not heard from them!

 

The reason for not paying unless a court order was present is complicated but the general basis was the fact that I asked for a copy of the signed consumer credit agreement! And so far they have not complied!

 

When I say “complicated” what I mean is that there were other grounds for refusing to pay! 1 being that when the policy was sold to me on the phone the agent forgot to tell me about the £15 set up cost for direct debit and also the £30 cost with the loan company! They also failed to tell me the total cost of credit and that if I were to cancel early the costs would be more!!

 

I am now looking into this with other accounts as they too have no signed copy of the agreement!!

 

Morally and legally in my opinion you must NOT take out credit and then try to get out of paying it!! So please do not ask for credit and then spend the credit recklessly knowing that you will be unable to pay it back as this constitutes fraud and is punishable in law. However when the company that you have been with for years turns round in a credit crunch and downturn and treats customers by INCREASING the interest rates substantially then in my personal opinion use whatever legal method you have to protect you from them.

 

I have read and understand to the best of my ability the consumer credit act 1974 and also understand the amended act 2006 has closed the doors on most of the loop holes in consumer credit agreements made after May 2006. The loan companies will be much more vigilant in future and most if not all agreements will be correctly formatted and enforceable.

 

I made some very specific study into unsigned consumer credit agreements and plan to go ahead with refusal to pay on one or two of my accounts but advise caution as some agreements may still be enforceable and especially if they have been made after May 2006 and if made online or in an electronic form over the internet then a signed agreement may not be essential in enforcement in law.

 

Proceed with caution!

 

good luck

 

the future is credit free!

Edited December 27, 2008 by mallyonline

[theladyknows]

Am I correct in saying that failure of a credit card company to supply a copy of the agreement after a valid request and payment of the £10 fee (as well as several reminders) renders the contact unenforceable.

[dpick]

Am I correct in saying that failure of a credit card company to supply a copy of the agreement after a valid request and payment of the £10 fee (as well as several reminders) renders the contact unenforceable.

 

Hi the quick answer is no they are in default and should not try to enforce (but they do) they can enforce again if they later produce the enforceable agreement. The fee for CCA request is £1 and for Subject Access Request is £10.

 

The agreement only becomes unenforcable if they admit no agreement or if they finally produce an agreement and that agreement did not contain all the required terms and the agreement was issued prior to the 2006 CCA amendments.

 

 

dpick

[deborah lillis]

Hi Guys

I have been reading all the comments with regards to non enforceable credit card agreements. I took out a halifax credit card in 2005 over the internet and went down the track of having one of these loan shark companies assess my credit agreement. They came back with a glorified report stating many areas did not comply with the CCA law. I was then told that a solicitor would take my case on a no win no fee basis. However, the documentation (like all lawyers) mentioned words like "if" you are unsuccessful, or "if" things dont go your way. I havent signed the documentation as in my eyes either an agreement is right or it is wrong. Wouldn't you agree? Also I am unsure how I stand with regards to applying for the card over the internet? Does the principle in law still stand? I asked Halifax to send me a copy of my signed agreement but they refused to do so and subsequently sent me a copy of an agreement which was different to the one that I hold? I am thinking of writing to Halifax to tell them to take me to court. Has anyone had any dealing with halifax?

 

Thanks

lethaldebs

[London000]

Hi there,

I have lots of problems with them as well as they are refusing to disclose CCA for 2 credit cards. One is closed as paid it off a few years ago, but the funny bit is HALIFAX would not even disclose the SAR after 3 months of correspondence. I have then informed the ICO and FOS - still waiting but I am sure that it willl be sorted very soon.

Second credit card - Halifax did send the SAR, but stil waiting for CCA as second letter I have sent saying that they are in default already and by 15th May 2009 Halifax will commit an offence. Stil waiting.

They are trying so hard not to give millions of people what they have taken for so many years illigally; but the more they hold back all these money the greater the fall banks will have.

When you think that these money are carying all the suffering, tears, even lifes of lots of poor people....

I would like to ask them about their moral? It might be less then zero anyway.

Halifax is one of the most ignorant bank and as soon as I am clearing all these, I am saying a big GOOD BYE!

Their loss but we still going to fight back! I am unemployed anyway so I have nothing to lose. Eve if I will go back to work I will not give up.

Good luck and looking forward for many happy news from everyone:p

 

 

 

Hi Guys

I have been reading all the comments with regards to non enforceable credit card agreements. I took out a halifax credit card in 2005 over the internet and went down the track of having one of these loan shark companies assess my credit agreement. They came back with a glorified report stating many areas did not comply with the CCA law. I was then told that a solicitor would take my case on a no win no fee basis. However, the documentation (like all lawyers) mentioned words like "if" you are unsuccessful, or "if" things dont go your way. I havent signed the documentation as in my eyes either an agreement is right or it is wrong. Wouldn't you agree? Also I am unsure how I stand with regards to applying for the card over the internet? Does the principle in law still stand? I asked Halifax to send me a copy of my signed agreement but they refused to do so and subsequently sent me a copy of an agreement which was different to the one that I hold? I am thinking of writing to Halifax to tell them to take me to court. Has anyone had any dealing with halifax?

 

Thanks

lethaldebs

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testing.

[car2403]

testing.

 

It's working

 

There's a link to a beginners guide to CAG in my signature if you're not familiar with our forum, also

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Thanks. Will holler if I get stuck. Many thanks

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Thanks. Will holler if I get stuck....

[car2403]

Is there an echo in here?

 

Eeeeeecccccccchhhhhhhhhhoooooooooo.....

 

[END OF ROPE]

Chris, may I ask your advice on a letter I have just received?

 

Thank you

 

E.O.A