TBI Debt???? we cant remember if we owe it or not it was so long ago??? before 2001

[beachlover.iow]

Hi, I hope I have posted in the correct subforum this time…..just getting used to this at the moment…

My partner has just (yesterday) received a letter from TBI Financial services. It says that “by an agreement dated 21st Nov 2001, HFC Bank PLC sold and assigned all of its rights, title interest in..blah de blah…to TBI financial services.”

 

It then goes on to claim that that my partner has an account and owes £1356.54 plus accrued interest. It then says “it is clear that no payments have been made for some time and they are including a payment alternative form for out completion and return. It may be clear to them but it is most definitely not clear to us!!! This is first time we have heard about this debt and we have been blissfully of its existence until now!!

 

When trying to think back over the past 6 years is pretty difficult …the trouble is we cannot remember owing this debt so we do not know if it belongs to us or not?? I know that sound like a cop out but it is true…We seriously cannot remember that far back were money is concerned….…In fact when we try to think back that far we think my partner was detained at her majesty’s pleasure at this time???

1999 - 2001 was a terrible period of our life’s lot of nasty stuff going on…my partner left his ex-wife taking the kids with him…he had a breakdown…ended up in hospital and in prison…The ex-wife was very bitter long and horrible divorce etc ect….to tell the truth my partner cannot remember if he owes the debt or not there was to much disruption around this time…he did wonder if it was something left over from his previous marriage…and perhaps his ex-wife ran up the debt.

 

I am guessing the first thing I need from this company is some evidence that the debt is indeed my partners….and a statement of the last time the account was used. Should I write to them and deny the debt and ask for evidence??

 

Can they really add interest to a debt that we did not know existed?? This the first time we have heard of the debt so it seems unfair to add interest to something we did not know existed?

 

Any advice on how to proceed would be gratefully received

[djdave]

A few questions for you. Can you remember if it would have been an unsecured debt (credit card etc), or secured? And has it ever been subject to a CCJ? And, importantly, when you last made a payment towards it?

 

If it's unsecured, not subject to a CCJ, and if it's been more than 6 years (5 in Scotland) since you either acknowledged it in writing or made a payment, then it's almost certainly statute barred.

 

This means that although the debt still exists, it is unenforcable.

[oneofakind]

If you honestly don't know, make them prove it!

 

Send this:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

THEY have to prove that there is a debt to collect. You don't have to pay until they do, if ever.

 

If this is a credit card or other unsecured debt, then if there has been no payment made in the past 6 years, then the alleged debt is unenforceable.

 

 

 

EDIT: thanks to Curly ben for the letter, once again.

[beachlover.iow]

Thank you very much,

That letter is great.

 

I have spoken again to 'the master in doors' my other half. I think he seriously does not remember. He says he has a vague recollection of having a credit card...round about the time he split up with his ex-wife..

But that was in 1998....

The letter says HFC Bank PLC....Is this a credit card....

I am sorry I dont know the difference between a secured or unsecured?? Nor CCJ?

 

Trouble is we a guessing a time frame here.....we most definately have not heard of this debt in the past 6 years....I know that for cetain because my partner was released from HM pleasure in January 2001 and he has lived here with me ever since...We have not aknoweledge or even known about it in all that time.

 

So we may be within the 6 year rule....

 

Maybe I should ask them for the details they hold about the account....that way we would know for certian when he last used the used the account. Then we would know for certain that we are with the 6 year rule.

Or should I just write and say it is a statute barred??

[beachlover.iow]

If they send the details I dont mind paying...

But looking at our monthly budgeting they will be lucky to get 10 quid...

 

Plus I am most definately not up for paying 6 years worth of intrest....they can go swivle for that....I dont think that is at all fair..

It like me lending you money ....then not asking for it back....but hayho...6 years later I decide I want it back with intrest...

[oneofakind]

In the first instance, I'd just send the letter, to try and get some details from them. Once you find out what it's about, let us know and we'll sort out the next step.

 

[beachlover.iow]

Ok,

 

A letter is now in the post to this company asking for any details of the account and a deed of assignment. Plus I have asked for any data they hold about this client under the data protection act.

I have clearly stated that I do not want any further communication until I have all these details and that this matter is in dispute.

 

Did I do it correctly??

 

I will get back as soon as I have a reply

 

Thank you sooo much people.

[oneofakind]

sounds good.

 

Did you send it Recorded Delivery? It's always best for things like this, but I don't think anyone told you....d'oh!

[Curlyben]

As ONE beat me too it, go with the "What the Feck" letter and make them send you documentary proof that they even have the right person.

When/if they respond we'll tackle that later.

 

Beach it sounds like you have just sent a CCA and SAR.

Shame as this all could of been sorted out with the previous letter, as if this debt is as old as you think, then they wouldn't be able to enforce it anyway.

[beachlover.iow]

Doh.....I did'nt send it recorded.....silly me!! But i have a copy nicely filed away!

 

I dont know what a SAR is.........

I Dont know the other thingy too:D Sorry...

 

But I just worked out what CCJ means....and the answer to the earlier question is...NO... my other half has never been subject to a county court judgement on this debt..or any othe debt...

Like I said.......it the first time we have had any contact about this debt.

 

I also just worked out what the date in the body of the text means...."we are writing to inform you that by an agreement dated the 27th Nov 2001, HFC Bank sold all of its assigned rights...ect ect" It means they bought the debt way back in 2001....I wonder why they are only just getting around to contacting us??:?

 

mmmmm

[Curlyben]

ALWAYS send time sensitive/Important letters recorded.

Others aren't so important.

 

Now you see the problem.

IF you had sent the earlier letter then it would of revealed that this debt is barred and NO action is possible.

 

Oh well you live and learn

[beachlover.iow]

Yeah I see the problem...:o

I should have stamped it because I would have proof of posting and the date...I just dint think because even though the letter was recieved yesterday it was dated the 5th October. They demanded an acknowlegement within 14 days...so I kinda rushed without thinking....:o because i wanted to meet the 14 day deadline. (I guess their letter to this address was held up in a postal strike) But equally, they did not send the letter to us via recorded delivery....so how do they know we even recieved the communication???

 

But surely,

The response to the letter asking for details of the account will reveal the debt and that the corresponding communication is older that six years. Well at least at this address anyhow which Ia m sure of....for reasons detail earlier!

 

Sorry for all the trouble and my misunderstanding....I am not used to things like this...plus I have the added disadvantage in that I have "blonde moments" in which it takes a while for the penny to drop.

 

Oh well it is all academic now and I guess i have to wait for the response....

I will be back when I have the information or any reply.

[oneofakind]

Proof of delivery is the important thing, especially when deadlines are involved, but I don't think it's a major concern here.

 

Don't worry about it, just sit back and wait for their reply... they're bound to be in touch in some way before long. Let us know when they are.

 

Couple of points:

OFT guidelines say that for them to continue trying to collect the debt whilst it is disputed is 'unfair practice'.

you haven't mentioned that they've rung you, so I assume that they don't have your phone number. Make sure it stays that way! Don't EVER talk to any of these people on the phone.

 

In the meantime, stay cool!

 

[beachlover.iow]

OMG

I have been looking around on the consumer forums and I found this letter to a consumer from a solicitor representing TFS.

 

I would suggest that you take proper independent legal advice concerning the same if you are still unsure of your position, as it would appear, given the contents of the correspondence you have submitted to date, you have simply taken advice over the internet, as your letters bear a substantial resemblance to numerous others that my clients have received concerning similar points.

These buggers mean business....I can already anticipate the response...

I am pretty scared of them now!!

 

 

[Curlyben]

Beach, responses like that are simply meant to scare.

Now I know this will sound big headed, but here are members here that know MORE about consumer credit law than most independent legal advisers.

 

Now there is nothing wrong with sending template responses to these "people" as their own nastygrams are simply templates as well.

 

Now if TBI were a reputable DCA then they would know for fact that these threats against a statute barred debt break any number of regulation, laws and procedures.

 

Now calm down and please take our advice.

Collectively we have a massive amount of experience in dealing with these "people".

 

Could I please ask where you found this quote ?

[Fuzzgin]

Please don't be. That's just their legalese for "we haven't got a chance so we'll threaten and hope they give in." If there's anything that can be done to help (and it sounds like there's plenty) someone here will help.

[oneofakind]

I would suggest that you take proper independent legal advice concerning the same if you are still unsure of your position, as it would appear, given the contents of the correspondence you have submitted to date, you have simply taken advice over the internet, as your letters bear a substantial resemblance to numerous others that my clients have received concerning similar points.

 

Condescending twaddle!

means 'you poor plebs don't have a chance against us... we have degrees, you know.'

 

SO WHAT if the letter is largely the same as others? It's the facts contained in that letter that are important. ie: THE LAW!

 

Most DCA correspondence should be filed under 'ignore'. This one should be filed on a hook in the toilet!

 

Beach... DON'T WORRY!

 

[beachlover.iow]

ok...

i am making myself a mantra...."Ignore them ignore them and ignore them....they twiddle the law to suit their purposes. and in law everybody is protected and everybody is arrogant and nobody is correct."

[Curlyben]

A better mantra is......

"Ask CAG FIRST"

 

Hey that's why we are here.

We all have debt issues on DAG (Debt Action Group) and we share our experiences to the benefit of others.

Best of all this is all FREE.

All we ask is that you listen to our advice and pass it on to others as you feel comfortable to.

On the whole we aren't legally trained, but it's amazing how much can be learnt when your way of life could be on the line.

 

DCA's feed form human misery and don't know what to do when their "clients" fight back with better legal arguments then they understand.

 

There is more to life than debt, there is DAG !!!

[beachlover.iow]

Ok

I have created a mantra that will reduce my stress.

These idiots are after my money. I don't owe it to them so they get aggressive. aggressiveness is a weakness, so.. If i stay cool they will get nothing. scare tactics are aggressive impulses that are aimed at those who cannot defend. Case law is made to protect the vulnerable not the greedy bastards.

 

i also have a degree so I am just as good as the these idiots. I may be better because i i have a sense of morality.

[beachlover.iow]

there you are...I am much more positive due to CAG

[beachlover.iow]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/94826-tbi-financial-services.html

Hi thanks for all your encouragement

I read the quote in another thread.

[Curlyben]

Interesting read.

A shame that both the "solicitor" and TS are "confused" in this regard.

The mentioned prescribed terms MUST be included in the signature document and cannot be a completely separate T&C document.

After all the T&C's aren't even referenced in the application document, so they could relate to anything.

 

For further information have a look at this post from PeterBard: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements-498.html#post1192341

[djdave]

I'm angry now. So what if lots of people are sending in similar letters? Maybe they're similar because we're all quoting the same LAW, and unlike certain DCA's we don't try to twist the law to fit our circumstances.

 

And... calm.

[oneofakind]

Spot on Dave: If 100 'customers' have the same complaint, then it stands to reason that all their letters will be similar....

 

....just like the DCA's demands!