Clarification help needed on cca defaulting please

[risibilis]

Searching through lots of stickies and threads, I'm still unclear as to the difference between the 12+2 working days default deadline and the 30 day calendar date criminal offence timeline. I understand the legal differences but what does it mean to the debtor?

Some posts on here state that after the 12+2 period has passed, the debt is unenforceable by law. But is that correct?

Also, do postal strikes affect the 12+2 period? (once the cca request has been received)

Thanks for any clarification .....

[ashmk]

Intresting question. From what I gather and im no expert is after the 12+2 days they have to goto court to be able to reenfoece the debt. After the 30 days you can report them to the powers that be to drop them in the poo-poo.

 

Im subscribing tom this post as im intrested in the correct answer to.

[diskmandave]

It's always best to send by rec/del so you have a delivery date and the 12+2 timescale doesn't come in to it.

 

Beginning the day after delivery, "they" have 12 working days to supply, after that the request is in default and cannot be enforced by anyone. After a calendar month in default a summary Criminal Offence is committed which must be reported to Trading Standards within 6 months. A calendar month is calculated using 30 normal days unless the last day falls upon a Sunday or Bank Holiday in which case it's 31 days.

 

Any clearer now?

 

Regards, Dave.

[ashmk]

Sorry to jump in your thread risibilis, if i may i have a question for DMS.

 

What happens if the CCA turns up 1 week after the 12 days have finished.

and

What happens if it turns up 1 week after the 12+2+30 days. or anytime after the timespans.

[diskmandave]

Sorry to jump in your thread risibilis, if i may i have a question for DMS.

 

What happens if the CCA turns up 1 week after the 12 days have finished.

Enforceable again.

and

What happens if it turns up 1 week after the 12+2+30 days. or anytime after the timespans.

Would have to be enforced by the Court, but if the CCA was ok it probably would be.

 

Forget this +2 thing too, send by rec/del and the clock starts ticking the day after delivery and there is proof that it was delivered.

 

Regards, Dave.

[Dispirited]

Subscribing. Think the answer may still the same, and that they're out of time but better wait for Dave's reply.

[ashmk]

OK i think i got it so for example you have a debt with abc123 collections. You are paying them and you CCA them. You carry on paying upto the 12th day then you can stop payments untill a CCA turns up on your door.

[risibilis]

It's always best to send by rec/del so you have a delivery date and the 12+2 timescale doesn't come in to it.

 

Beginning the day after delivery, "they" have 12 working days to supply, after that the request is in default and cannot be enforced by anyone. After a calendar month in default a summary Criminal Offence is committed which must be reported to Trading Standards within 6 months. A calendar month is calculated using 30 normal days unless the last day falls upon a Sunday or Bank Holiday in which case it's 31 days.

 

Any clearer now?

 

Regards, Dave.

Sort of, thanks, Dave.

It's probably best if I give specific dates here.

I sent a CCA request, recorded delivery, which was signed for on Saturday 30 June. By my calculations the 12+2 is up today, Thursday 19th July. Am I right?

Or do they get an extra day's grace because there was a one day postal strike in the middle of this period?

(And it's good to see you back on the site )

[risibilis]

Sorry to jump in your thread risibilis, if i may i have a question for DMS.

 

What happens if the CCA turns up 1 week after the 12 days have finished.

and

What happens if it turns up 1 week after the 12+2+30 days. or anytime after the timespans.

I don't mind you jumping in at all, Ashmk. In fact you worded the question better than me!

[diskmandave]

Yep! That's it in a nutshell....

 

Read Sections 77 to 79 of the Consumer Credit act 1974, it's not complicated and this will explain in bottom line plain English...

http://www.crw.gov.uk/resources/consumercreditact1974.pdf

 

Regards, Dave.

 

 

[risibilis]

At the risk of sounding like a pedant - or just stupid - if the cca is enforceable if it's flourished by the creditor after the default deadline, then what's the point of the 12 day deadline?

[diskmandave]

Sort of, thanks, Dave.

It's probably best if I give specific dates here.

I sent a CCA request, recorded delivery, which was signed for on Saturday 30 June. By my calculations the 12+2 is up today, Thursday 19th July. Am I right?

Or do they get an extra day's grace because there was a one day postal strike in the middle of this period?

(And it's good to see you back on the site )

 

Default - 18 July

Offence - 17 August

 

Forget this +2 thing if you have a delivery date!

[diskmandave]

At the risk of sounding like a pedant - or just stupid - if the cca is enforceable if it's flourished by the creditor after the default deadline, then what's the point of the 12 day deadline?

 

The CCA is unenforceable whilst in default. That's just the way the law is written, which is in our favour..

[risibilis]

The CCA is unenforceable whilst in default. That's just the way the law is written, which is in our favour..

Okay, thanks Dave, got it!

So, the really important date is the 30 calendar days one? When the debt becomes unenforceable in law.

[Curlyben]

Just to add something to all this.

Once the CCA passes the 12 + Month and the "creditor"/DCA sends letters damanding payment or aking threats then it is time to get Trading Standards involved as this "debt" hasn't been legally proved to exist.

This is the main reason whay it is extremely important to log and document all of your dealings with DCA's.

 

As Dave mentioned without a compliant credit agreement then enforcement or any action is NOT possible. Ths is a FULL defence in law, no matter what the DCA says otherwise.

NO agreement = NO contract = NO debt.

 

Ok over simplified as the debt still exists, but is unenforceable, even in court.

There is a good precdent case that covers non-compliant credit agreements: House of Lords - Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Appellant)