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My First Solictor's Letter


Guest HeftyHippo
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Guest HeftyHippo

I've received my first solicitor's letter today from DG acting for HSBC ( I note at the bottom they appear to be staff employed by HSBC). I also see it's barely possible for money to reach their account in time due to the delays in post, even if I had the money and wanted to pay.

 

 

DGSolicitors20090511.jpg

 

I'm unsure how to deal with it. I have a DMP set up with PayPlan. It's true I've not stuck to it and am in the process of revising it. However HSBC rejected the plan anyway.

 

HSBC served a defective Default a while ago, followed by a demand for payment in full, which I think is effectively a Termination (see in my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/230280-dodgy-default-notices.html#post2551941)

 

I haven't CCA or SAR anyone yet, I'm still sorting things out and have been considering bankruptcy.

 

I've had threatening letters from DCAs for this and other accounts, but this is the first from a solicitor. Is it more posturing? They have my income and expenses drawn up with PayPlan, so they know I have no liquidity.

 

Opinions? Should I acknowledge it at all? Should I pass it to PayPlan and advise them I have done so and leave it? Ignore it and carry on deciding my general strategy? Reply pointing out I am unable to pay more than a token amount (on benefits). Do the CCA as planned? Do SAR or wait to see if they do sue, then get what the SAR would provide through evidence procedures (not sute what its called)

 

An interesting question, does any of the documentation show they have terminated the account yet?

Edited by HeftyHippo
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Guest HeftyHippo

Thanks, but no where do they claim to have any powers, they only state their they have been instructed to take legal action to recover the debt, to avoid such action I should pay them money, and state the possibility that they may get a CCJ. Simple statements of fact. No basis for making any complaint about them as far as I can see.

Edited by HeftyHippo
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Guest HeftyHippo

I also see, on closer inspection, that the account number they reference is my current account, but the balance they claim is the combined credit card and current account balances as listed on their demand, plus about £90

charlatans springs to mind

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they can combine them as its called right to set off. HSBC did it with my loan into my current account.

 

Did you get a default notice for both the card and the overdraft? I'd post them up incase they are defective.

 

When did you take the credit card out? Chances are they wont have the CCA for it so maybe worth asking for it. HSBC didn't have my CCA for my card and its still outstanding. HSBC have set MCS, DG and now Central debt recovery onto me. All part of HSBC so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

What I personally would do is send a SAR letter to them asking for everything. Default Notcies, CCA, Termination Notice's, full list of charges etc.

 

Chances are they have applied alot of charges onto your current account and credit account. Both probably have been defaulted with charges on them. If you start reclaiming the charges they will put your account on hold until the test case is sorted out. This will give you a bit of time to get as much information together and your chance to read up on similar cases and know your rights to fight back.

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Guest HeftyHippo

Thanks for your replies.

 

My guess is that they can combine the amount in terms of legal action, rather than suing me twice, but surely cannot claim the total amount is due as my overdraft (a technical matter which nevertheless makes the current account balance as shown, inaccurate). I think the right to 'set off' applies to where you have money in one account and not enough in another to pay a debt. Set off allows the bank to transfer money from one account to pay the debt on another.

 

They cannot consolidate the accounts as they are both different, with diffeent agreements interest rates etc, but they haven't done that, they've just not bothered to itemise the balance. They did itemise it in the Demand they sent (listed on other thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/230280-dodgy-default-notices.html#post2551941)

 

They Defaulted the credit card, but I don't think they did the current account

 

The current account was taken out in 1990 when the bank was launched. I guess the credit card was applied for at the same time or soon after.

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given the age of the credit card have you asked for a copy of your CCA under s78?

 

As Pipster has stated do a SAR unless you have the full set of statements (they'll usually only send 6 in reply to a SAR) and work out the charges on that account.

 

S.

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they can combine them as its called right to set off. HSBC did it with my loan into my current account. No they cant, they can offset but they cant combine a current account with a credit card account, for one thing the interest applied to the credit card would in no way reflect what maybe charged on a current account

 

.

 

pgh

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Guest HeftyHippo

ok, thanks very much for all your comments, but the fact that they incorrectly stated my current account balance on the letter is not the most important issue. I daresay if they sued me for that they would fail as I can produce documents that state the balance. Its more likely that they would sort the details out if they went to court.

 

The main question is what I should do. Are they likely to be going to court or is this more posturing?

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They have a pre-sue unit do they, bet that took a lot of thinking up.

 

This is plain and simple a scare tactic to see how you react and to get as much money out of you as possible

 

Here's what I'd do-

I'd Write to DG and tell them you CCA'd HSBC 3 months ago (specific date). You have not heard back from HSBC therefore it's in dispute and kindly instruct your clientt comply with my lawful request. Until then 78(6) of the CCA applies.

 

Thats what I did and it made their head spin, because whatever they expected it wasn't that!:).

 

Yes I know it's a lie and may god strike me down and all that but we're not exactly dealing with Ghandi or the Pope here are we!

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cca them both it's not for you to say that the o/d is part v exempt.

 

but if you do sar make it clear you want documents compliant with the determination plus default and termination notices - if you dont they'll just send you a load of useless statements

 

but I stand by what I posted first as been the action I would take.

 

I would love to continue the glove puppet analogies but I'm afraid it would quickly degenerate into 'hands up butts' and the like!!!

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No they cant, they can offset but they cant combine a current account with a credit card account, for one thing the interest applied to the credit card would in no way reflect what maybe charged on a current account

 

Which is why they prob haven't done it with my credit card then as just the loan was put into the O/D

 

If you SAR them they have to give you all information for all of your accounts not just 1 of them. So it wouldn't be £10 for the OD and £10 for Credit Card. It's just £10 for all of them. When I sent off my SAR to HSBC it went for all 3 accounts, CC, Loan and OD.

 

  1. You will get what charges you have had
  2. The CCA's (if they have them)
  3. The DN (which they wont have)
  4. Any TN

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: XXXXXXXXXX

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to detailed occurrences relating to the above account numbers.

 

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to these accounts, including but not limited to:

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to the accounts.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

 

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

 

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

 

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

 

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

13. A True copy of the consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.

 

Any Other information relating to these accounts

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

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Which is why they prob haven't done it with my credit card then as just the loan was put into the O/D

 

If I was you I would be queringing this practice too for the same reasons, a Loan has interest applied, a current account does not, they only way they would have merged them is if they terminated the account and stopped all interest

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Which is why they prob haven't done it with my credit card then as just the loan was put into the O/D

 

If I was you I would be queringing this practice too for the same reasons, a Loan has interest applied, a current account does not, they only way they would have merged them is if they terminated the account and stopped all interest

 

They have which is why for 6 months I have been asking for the DN and the TN. They didn't send them in the SAR as they don't have them. However in what I think is their comm's log was a date the DN was sent and a date the TN was sent. I never got either.

 

Hence why I was saying for the orginal poster to send a SAR off and they will find out what has happened

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Guest HeftyHippo

Thanks for your replies, I know they are intended to help, but I cannot see at this time how a SAR or CCA will help. If you could explain why SAR will benefit me now, rather than at a later date, I might understand why it has been mentioned so much.

 

My main concern that hasn't been addressed is whether they are likely to start legal action, or if this is simply posturing.

 

I know if they don't produce a CCA, they cannot pursue the credit card, so a CCA request is being sent, and that will reveal the enforceability or otherwise of the credit account, but the overdraft is not covered by the CCA and could still result in legal action.

 

As stated on my other thread, they have NOT issued a termination, but HAVE issued a default on the credit card.

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Guest HeftyHippo
a sar will produce the account statements - charges claimed back etc

 

I know that. But in the event of legal action from them it won't be much use, and my concern at the moment is if they will take legal action of if this is more bluff and threat

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No-one else seems to have answered the question about further action so I will :rolleyes:

 

There is a chance that yes they will.

 

Sending for the SAR info will show any unfair charges which would reduce your indebtedness to them.

 

Don't forget that if they do issue court papers, they will have done so on the back of an invalid DN ;)

Adding any unfair charges to the invalid DN & you've got the beginnings of a defence.

 

If you're on a DMP (or have been), your credit file is likely to be pants already so any CCJ they may get against you will only last for 6yrs - the same or maybe even less time than your other commitments under the DMP so won't have too devastating an effect hopefully :)

 

The thing to remember is that if they do issue papers, there are people on here with extraordinary knowledge who will give you their expertise to enable you to do whatever you feel you want to ie. defend or admit :D

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Guest HeftyHippo
No-one else seems to have answered the question about further action so I will :rolleyes:

 

Thanks very much for actually addressing the issue. When I know the facts and possibilities, I can plan what to do (thanks also for your comments on my other thread. I'm still working through those links...)

 

 

Sending for the SAR info will show any unfair charges which would reduce your indebtedness to them.

Yes, I know that. I'm sure there has been unfair charges but they won't make much of a dent in the sum owed. (sadly). I'm in the process of prioritising which ones to CCA and SAR. My income means that to make a SAR I can't make any payments on my DMP for that month. Even a CCA is difficult to afford at the moment. I don't think I'd get away with not making any DMP payments for 8 months or so whilst I SAR them all...

 

Don't forget that if they do issue court papers, they will have done so on the back of an invalid DN ;)

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out. I'm totally new to this, and I know a DN has to be issued before legal action, and I can see that this DN doesn't comply. I can imagine that's grounds for having the CCJ application thrown out. But as they haven't issued a Termination Notice (as you note on my other thread) , they could simply issue a new, complying DN then issue a new CCJ application, couldn't they?

 

 

If you're on a DMP (or have been), your credit file is likely to be pants already so any CCJ they may get against you will only last for 6yrs - the same or maybe even less time than your other commitments under the DMP so won't have too devastating an effect hopefully :)

Not bothered about my credit rep - as you say, shot to pieces. Now, a CCJ is recorded for 6 years. After that, I presume it ends, does the need for payments under it removed? From what I know about CCJs (not much) they prevent a debt being statute barred, so they could chase me for anything unpaid. Would they be able to get another CCJ for the balance? If not, how could they get it from me? As my DMP won't end for another 100 years at the present rate, maybe I'd be better off with a hatful of CCJs?:D:D

 

 

The thing to remember is that if they do issue papers, there are people on here with extraordinary knowledge who will give you their expertise to enable you to do whatever you feel you want to ie. defend or admit :D

Yes, there are some very helpful and knowledgeable people on here who know the law and the failings and dirty tricks of the finance companies and DCAs and try to help. Sadly, there also those like him above you. Edited by HeftyHippo
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