Unenforceable Credit Agreement : NatWest Loan Update

[ShowMeTheLight]

I Sent a letter requesting my credit agreement for my Natwest Loan which has £12,000.00 outstanding. I have recieved the following letter from NatWest and would like your guidance on how to proceed.

 

Dear Mr Showmethelight,

 

Re: Request for copy Credit Agreement under section 77 of the Consumer Credit 1974.

 

I refer to your correspondance dated 25th July 2009 making a request under s.77(1).

 

We regret to advise you that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching our records we have been unable to locate it. Regretably we are unable to comply fully with your request made under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act and return the £1.00 cheques which was enclosed with your letter. However we are able to provide you with a statement of financial information which is included below.

 

Statement of Financial Information

 

Loan Account Details XXXXX - XXXXXXXX

 

Balance drawn on 28th September 2006 - Total amount of the loan - £18,250.00. First payment of £259.84 due monthly thereafter.

Total amount paid to date £8,834.56

Balance Remaining £12,992.00

 

Notwithstanding this the loan remains valid and we expect you to continue to meet our obligations under the agreement. We should point out that if you cease to make further payments as they fall due we will report the default to credit reference agencies.

 

The RBS Group and other companies may use the record of the default and any other information provided to the CRA's when considering applications by you, or anyone else with whom you have a joint account with. The existance of information on accounts in default at the CRA's may impair your ability to obtain credit or other financial facilities for a period of up to 6 years.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

XXXXXX

 

 

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I hava a few question as follows.

 

1. What response shall I post to them please.

2. Will they take me to court? as this is above 5k will I go to a court other than the Small court?

3. Can they send this information to the CRA's for the default. From what I understand I have to give them permission and this is usually given in the credit agreement which they have misfiled, consuquestly they cannot pass this information? Does my logic make sense?

4. Shall I cease to make payments from now on?

 

Your guidance on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank You in Advance.

[PGH7447]

I Sent a letter requesting my credit agreement for my Natwest Loan which has £12,000.00 outstanding. I have recieved the following letter from NatWest and would like your guidance on how to proceed.

 

Dear Mr Showmethelight,

 

Re: Request for copy Credit Agreement under section 77 of the Consumer Credit 1974.

 

I refer to your correspondance dated 25th July 2009 making a request under s.77(1).

 

We regret to advise you that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching our records we have been unable to locate it. Regretably we are unable to comply fully with your request made under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act and return the £1.00 cheques which was enclosed with your letter. However we are able to provide you with a statement of financial information which is included below.

 

Statement of Financial Information

 

Loan Account Details XXXXX - XXXXXXXX

 

Balance drawn on 28th September 2006 - Total amount of the loan - £18,250.00. First payment of £259.84 due monthly thereafter.

Total amount paid to date £8,834.56

Balance Remaining £12,992.00

 

Notwithstanding this the loan remains valid and we expect you to continue to meet our obligations under the agreement. We should point out that if you cease to make further payments as they fall due we will report the default to credit reference agencies.

 

The RBS Group and other companies may use the record of the default and any other information provided to the CRA's when considering applications by you, or anyone else with whom you have a joint account with. The existance of information on accounts in default at the CRA's may impair your ability to obtain credit or other financial facilities for a period of up to 6 years.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

XXXXXX

 

 

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I hava a few question as follows.

 

1. What response shall I post to them please. - you can state no agreement no enforceable debt, or you could ask that all interest and charges are refunded and you will make a token payment a month towards the original loan amount

2. Will they take me to court? as this is above 5k will I go to a court other than the Small court? - they could do but without an agreement they are pretty well stuffed

3. Can they send this information to the CRA's for the default. From what I understand I have to give them permission and this is usually given in the credit agreement which they have misfiled, consuquestly they cannot pass this information? Does my logic make sense? it makes sense but they dont work that way, they will still default you and send your details to a cra and pass your debt to a dca

4. Shall I cease to make payments from now on? only you can decide that

 

Your guidance on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank You in Advance.

 

PGH

[xx.Morph.xx]

Personally I'd put the account into legal dispute by sending template letter 20 here:-http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Getting them to admit they have no CCA (not just miss filed) & to stop processing your data is about as likely as Gordon brown saying sorry.

 

They will undoubtedly place defaults on your file even thogh they shouldn't, so it's up to you really you could stop paying til a CCA turns up or offer a full & final & see what they say.

 

My opinion only & I'd wait for others

 

Morph

[2Grumpy]

Regardless of their permission to do so, if you stop payment they will default you & send the account to a DCA to collect on their behalf. If that is unsuccessfull they will probably sell the account on.

 

They would be unwise to take you to court without a CCA.

 

If they found it again, they would be able to ask you to start paying again.

[ShowMeTheLight]

From the letter does it look like I have a good case to stop payment, I am not sure whether misfiling the documents is the same as the documents not existing at all. What if they are able to produce it eventually? Please can you clarify as I would really appreicate your input?

[PGH7447]

if they do eventually produce it then you are back a square 1

[chocaholic]

You should continue your payments until such time that the debt is deemed unenforceable and terminated by the lender..

[PGH7447]

You should continue your payments until such time that the debt is deemed unenforceable and terminated by the lender..

 

er and when would that be? if the OP carries on paying then they will never deem it unenforceable

[cerberusalert]

We regret to advise you that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching our records we have been unable to locate

That one sentence speaks volumes......no CCA = no enforceable debt & the OP would be within their legal right to withold payment.

[ShowMeTheLight]

I have now sent the letter on the link xx.Morph.xx has kindly provided me with. Now I will wait to see what their response is. Once again I want to thank everyone for their advice. Thanks.

[GuitarHero]

subbing - same thing here Natwest loan - cca'd response misfiled after 12+2. Already sent notification of outstanding CCA, ceasing payments until valid CCA is provided, no refering to CRA, etc (which must have crossed in the post).

 

I'am minded to reply immediately with something specific to misfiled CCA - but will see how it goes/ sleep on it.

[ShowMeTheLight]

It has now been 14 days since I sent the 3rd letter as shown below after Natwest Loans notified me that they have misplaced my file. Now that the 14 days are over and no proof has been provided by Natwest I need the help of the Senior and Junior Members of the Consumer Action Group to advise me on how to proceed.

As usual thank you in advance.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam

 

NatWest Personal Loan Reference: 2XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Account Number: XXXXXXXX

Sort Code: XXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of 10/08/2009, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On 22nd July 3009 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the 27th July 2009.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 11th July 2009.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Mr Showmethelight

I Reserve the right not to sign this.

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[cerberusalert]

You don't need to do anything further, they've admitted they have no CCA so they cannot take any enforcement action. The a/c remains in dispute.

[angry cat]

Good God!

 

RBS certainly seem to have misplaced an awful lot of credit agreements.

[ShowMeTheLight]

So can I stop making payments to them now? and what can I do when they set their dogs loose?

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

So can I stop making payments to them now?

Yes you can stop payment.

what can I do when they set their dogs loose?

Without an enforceable agreement they be toothless, a sharp smack on their nose & they'll run away yelping.

[ShowMeTheLight]

Yes you can stop payment.

Without an enforceable agreement they be toothless, a sharp smack on their nose & they'll run away yelping.

 

Thanks Cerberusalert, Do I need to send them any letters to inform them that I am stopping the payments?

 

Also I understand that they cannot send any information to the credit reference agencies as they dont have any agreements, how wouls I action this?

 

Thanks in advance.

[cerberusalert]

You've sent the 'in dispute' letter already so you do not need to do anything until they contact you, the ball's in their court now.

 

As for recording information on your credit file although the absence of an enforceable agreement should preclude them the chances are they will continue to do so. You've already sent them a s.10 notice in the letter above, but if they continue to process your data have a read of; Knocked back by a DCA on a Sec 10 notice? - The Consumer Forums

[angry cat]

Unfortunately, RBS will continue to process adverse data with the CRA's;

their retaliatory weapon!

 

One then has to challenge this with the CRA's and;

The ICO.